Patricia Karvelas: Elsewhere today, Trade Minister, Don Farrell, has just concluded a week of meetings as part of the Pacific Trade Pact, otherwise known as the CPTPP. On the sidelines of that meeting, Minister Farrell has been meeting with his European counterpart, with a breakthrough on the long-awaited free trade agreement with the European Union, the EU. That's the deal that was abandoned due to disagreements over the names of Prosecco and white cheese.
I spoke to Don Farrell a short time ago.
Minister, welcome to the program.
Minister for Trade and Tourism, Minister Farrell: Thank you.
Patricia Karvelas: Have we had any breakthrough in the talks with the Europeans?
Minister Farrell: Look, I met with my counterpart, Maroš Šefčovič yesterday, we had two sets of meetings, one was with the CPTPP group, and the other one was direct negotiations between Australia and the EU about a free trade agreement.
I made the point to my colleagues at the CPTPP that I thought you could use the quote that Margaret Thatcher used when she first met Mr Gorbachev to Ronald Reagan, that "He's a man you can do business with". And I think that's the best way to describe Maroš Šefčovič. Like us, he wants to do a trade agreement, but of course like us, there have been issues to work through.
We've tried to use goodwill to ensure that we progress the talks, we did that yesterday, we're getting closer, we're not there yet, and there are still some difficult issues to deal with. We've tried to broaden the range of discussions and in particular to raise the issues of critical minerals and the way in which we can work in that space.
Mr Šefčovič met our Resources Minister, Madeleine King, yesterday. So everything is pointing in the right direction, Patricia, but there's still quite a bit more work to do.
Patricia Karvelas: Okay. Because Anthony Albanese is set to outline what we think might be material progress, whatever that means, on negotiations when he meets his counterpart, Ursula von der Leyen in Johannesburg. Is that where he will explain how close we've got?
Minister Farrell: Look, we're certainly making progress, and we made further progress yesterday, and we are narrowing down the numbers of issues between us, but that's not to say there's not some significant hurdles to get over between now and when we finally reach agreement.
But I have to say that the world has changed since we last had our negotiations a couple of years ago. Both of our regions understand just how important it is that we send a message to the rest of the world that there are countries that still believe in free and fair trade, that we believe the best way to increase the prosperity of our businesses and our workers is to continue down the path of free and fair trade, and I think the Europeans are committed to that, we are certainly committed to that.
We had a meeting of the 12 members of the CPTPP today. We're all committed to it, we are just about to add an additional country, Costa Rica, and we've come up with a plan for future accessions over the next 12 months.
So, I think everything has been pointing in the right direction, and I think the opportunity is here. We need to take that opportunity. There's an age of uncertainty in the space of tariffs and trade. We need to provide stability and certainty to our businesses, to our workers, and that's certainly what Australia intends to do.
Patricia Karvelas: Okay. You mentioned some sticking points. Can you just outline to us what they are now?
Minister Farrell: Oh, look, as much as I'd like to go through the negotiations on the ABC, and particularly with you, Patricia, while those negotiations are going on, I think the best thing I can do is continue to talk with my counterpart, see if we can resolve the outstanding issues and then come on your show and announce an agreement.
Patricia Karvelas: Okay. Is the Government prepared to dump the luxury tax in return for maybe better access to agricultural exports?
Minister Farrell: The luxury car tax is certainly one of the items on the agenda. What the Europeans say is, "Look, we make terrific electric vehicles, but because of the application of the luxury car tax, we can't compete with vehicles from other countries".
So they've certainly put it on the agenda. We're certainly prepared to talk about it, but we need a package, a full package so that all of the issues that we're concerned about, plus all the issues that they're concerned about are resolved and we can confidently shake hands on an agreement.
Patricia Karvelas: I just want to talk about a couple of other issues with you, Minister. Obviously losing the COP hosting rights has been a blow to some. Are you disappointed as a South Australian?
Minister Farrell: Look, I think we're all disappointed that it wasn't possible to organise the hosting of the COP in South Australia next year; the Premier, of course, was very keen to do that. We prosecuted the case as hard as we could, but in the end I don't think that there was, given the attitude that Türkiye had taken, I don't think that there was any other way of resolving the issue.
And so it is disappointing, but look, we live to fight another day, and perhaps some time in the future there will be an opportunity to host the COP.
Patricia Karvelas: Sussan Ley says Chris Bowen is a part‑time Energy Minister over his role as head of negotiations, so that is the Minister for going to summits essentially. They're going in pretty hard on that. Is it going to impact his ability to serve as a Minister and to focus on the energy prices element which is of course a key part of his job?
Minister Farrell: No. Look, Chris Bowen is a terrific Energy Minister, and he does have the personal energy to deal both with the issues that are involved in his job as Energy Minister for Australia, but also to be involved in that national – the international development of the net zero project.
I think he's going to be able to do both very, very competently. I think it's a great thing for Australia to have a position, or a person like Chris in that position, and being able to explain to the rest of the world what we're doing on renewables and net zero, but being right at the heart of all of those discussions to get to that net zero project. It's an important commitment; we're certainly pushing in that direction.
I mean just one of the things that Chris proposed, which was the battery project, already 100,000 Australians have signed up to electric batteries in their home. That was a Chris Bowen initiative. I think he'll do a really good job both for Australia, but internationally.
Patricia Karvelas: Okay. But that doesn't stop the political charge that he's too busy working on a global summit to do his day job, which is framed around lowering energy prices. You know, you're well known as being a very political figure inside the Labor Party, and I say that as a compliment to you, Don Farrell. Surely it concerns you that the optics might go wrong for Labor.
Minister Farrell: Look, I just have to disagree; I hate disagreeing with you, Patricia, by I do disagree on this occasion. Chris is a very competent Minister, he's very capable of doing both of those jobs. He'll continue to put pressure, downward pressure on electricity prices in Australia. We understand just how difficult that's been over recent years. Chris has devoted his time to trying to resolve that issue. It's an international problem. I think that the more, as a country, we can engage in this international process, the better off we're going to be.
Patricia Karvelas: Okay. Will he serve a full term, Don Farrell?
Minister Farrell: Will he serve a full term?
Patricia Karvelas: Yeah, will he serve this full term?
Minister Farrell: Of course, of course. He's doing a terrific job, and well, it's not just serving one term, Chris Bowen is a great asset to the Labor Party, he's a great asset to this country, and I would be advocating that he serve as long as he wants to do to, you know, work in this energy space.
Patricia Karvelas: I have to ask you, there's a story that's breaking that one of America's largest aluminium producers thinks that billions in subsidies to help Australian rivals to them decarbonise are giving essentially Australians an unfair advantage. Century Aluminium has urged the US President, Donald Trump's officials to register your Future Made in Australia policy as a problem. They say that this is a huge issue. Is the Future Made in Australia policy causing fractious relationships with the Trump Administration?
Minister Farrell: Well, look, I've now had six meetings with my counterpart, Jamieson Greer, and on not one occasion has he raised any concerns with me about our Future Made in Australia policy.
The American Government has increased the tariff on aluminium to 50 per cent, and of course, we have been arguing, as we did with beef, that the American Government should be reducing the tariff.
The simplest way for the Americans to reduce the cost of aluminium and to make it cheaper for them to manufacture their own products is to remove that tariff.
And you might recall one of the reasons that President Trump used to remove the tariff on beef is, or was, that it was pushing up prices. So, there's a very simple way that the Americans can reduce the cost and make it cheaper for them to import terrific Australian aluminium, and that's to remove that tariff.
Patricia Karvelas: Just finally, in your other portfolio, you are behind a proposal potentially to increase the number of seats in both chambers of Parliament. It's a change that has only, I think, been made, what, twice since federation.
Minister Farrell: Twice, yeah.
Patricia Karvelas: Yeah?
Minister Farrell: Yeah.
Patricia Karvelas: Do you think there's a strong case and that voters would really want to vote in more politicians?
Minister Farrell: Well, look, the issue ‑ I've simply put it up for discussion. After every election, Patricia, the Joint Standing Committee on electoral matters looks at a range of issues. Last election, of course, we looked at the issue of transparency in big money in the political process. I've given them a range of issues to discuss. One of them, of course, is the issue you've just raised, the number of politicians. Another one is the length of terms of Federal Parliament. You're not only soon elected to this job to find that, you know, you're facing another election.
Two great Labor leaders have increased the size of the Australian Parliament, and only two: Chifley and Hawke. It's been more than 40 years since we considered the number of Members of Parliament. In that time, the Australian population has almost doubled, Patricia.
What does that mean? Well, it means that your local Federal MP is having to look after more and more constituents. I think there's a case to look at the issue, I'm not ‑ we haven't got a firm position on this, and I'll be awaiting the report. I don't want to pre‑judge the report, but I suppose I pose this question to you, Patricia. If you don't do it now when the population has doubled, what figure do you wait for in order to look at it? And already Australia now finds itself in the position where we almost have the largest ratio of MPs to constituents of any democracy in the world.
So, all I'm saying is, let's look at the issue. It may be that people come to the conclusion that it's too hard, but I think it's an issue worth looking at, and democracy is under threat around the world. Let's not ‑‑
Patricia Karvelas: No, democracy is important, I agree.
Minister Farrell: ‑‑ you know, be in any doubt about that. And um --
Patricia Karvelas: Let me ask you this, though, because John Howard actually suggested recently that Anthony Albanese and Sussan Ley should get together, have a bipartisan position on having four-year fixed terms. This is a thing that many people want to see happen. Should that happen? Is that an opportunity?
Minister Farrell: Look, that is an opportunity, and you might recall in the last Parliament, Patricia, that I went out of my way to ensure that the reforms that we took to Parliament earlier this year were bipartisan. I do agree with former Prime Minister Howard that bipartisanship in electoral changes is the best way.
Now, Bob Hawke did have a crack at four-year terms, and while originally the Liberals agreed to it, they changed their position, and it failed in a referendum.
As you know, Patricia, referendums are really hard to get up in Australia. It does need bipartisan support, and even with bipartisan support, it's not always successful. But certainly, that would give us the best chance of success.
Patricia Karvelas: Thank you so much, Minister, for joining us.
Minister Farrell: Great to talk with you as always, Patricia.