Andrew Clennell: Well, joining me live on the program from Canberra is the Trade Minister, Don Farrell. Don Farrell, thanks so much for your time.
I wanted to start with an appointment you were part of today in terms of your involvement in Cabinet, and that's Krissy Barrett as the Federal Police Commissioner. This is obviously a bit of a surprise, Reece Kershaw's departure.
Has there been strained relations there between the Minister and the police? Was the government unhappy they didn't get more timely information that the terror caravan plot was a hoax, and why wasn't there some sort of panel process before Krissy Barrett was appointed, as there are often in these situations?
Minister for Trade: Good to be with you, Andrew. No, I think what you see is what you get here. Mr. Kershaw, who I've often sat with during Estimates, a very fine man and a great public servant for Australia, he's made a decision about his personal life, and the government has accepted his resignation and has appointed the first female Head of the AFP.
So, no, I don't think there's anything more to see here than what has been said by Mr. Kershaw himself, and I think it's an excellent appointment here, and I think we should be very grateful that we as a country have so much talent in our Australian Federal Police.
Andrew Clennell: All right. Well, let me ask about the other big issue of the day: the march on the Harbour Bridge. The New South Wales Premier said more than 100,000 people turned up. The PM made his comments sympathetic to the cause today.
This is something I can't imagine that the PM did not raise with his senior ministers, whether it's in Cabinet or other forums today, when he sees you all in Canberra. Can you tell me what you understand the PM's sort of views and position is on this issue, and in terms of the protest?
Minister for Trade: Oh, look, I always get into trouble on your show when I talk about the position of the Prime Minister, Andrew, so I'll leave it – I'll leave it to him to make it clear what his point of view is.
But look, we're a democracy, Andrew, and people are entitled to peacefully protest. You know, a lot of people did that over the weekend over the Sydney Harbour Bridge, but as the Prime Minister said in his earlier comments at his press conference today, it has to be done peacefully, and we don't want to bring conflicts from other countries into Australia.
Andrew Clennell: And the PM's welcome on this show tomorrow afternoon, I just want to put that out there for himself and his Office.
Now the PM, as I revealed yesterday, has put a request out for a phone call with the Israeli PM, Benjamin Netanyahu. Do you know if there's been any advance on that, and is that something you would encourage Mr. Netanyahu to agree to, and what might such a call achieve?
Minister for Trade: Look, my understanding is the same as yours, Andrew, that the Prime Minister has requested a call to Mr. Netanyahu. As I understand it, the Prime Minister is also speaking to other world leaders on this issue. Obviously, there is concern in the Australian community about what's happening in the Middle East and, in particular, between the Palestinians and the Israelis.
I think the Prime Minister will be explaining to Mr. Netanyahu what the position of the government is. We want a peaceful outcome of this dispute. Of course, as Premier Minns said, people were horrified about the actions of Hamas almost two years ago, and people are concerned about the humanitarian issues in Gaza.
So, there's a range of issues, I'm sure, that the Prime Minister will discuss if and when he gets a return call from Mr. Netanyahu.
Andrew Clennell: Now the Opposition are pretty black and white, if you like, on this issue, more so than the government, I think. They say basically Israel's in the right, and we can't forget the hostages, or the fact that there can be no recognition of Palestine without Hamas. What do you say to that?
Minister for Trade: Well, look, we can't forget the hostages, Andrew; these people have been kept in apparently quite appalling conditions for far too long, and the government supports Israel in its demand for the return of those hostages.
That would obviously be part of some ceasefire proposal, some peace settlement. So, to the extent that, you know, we can influence events in the Middle East, we want to see a peaceful outcome, we want to see a ceasefire, we want to see the return of the hostages, and we want to ensure that Hamas makes no further part in the government of Gaza.
Andrew Clennell: The only time I can recall 100,000 people turning up for a protest in Australia would be in Melbourne for some sort of Trades Hall-organised unions protest. Is it one of the biggest gatherings you've seen? I'll hasten to add that 250,000 turned out for the Reconciliation March at the turn of the century on the Harbour Bridge, however.
Minister for Trade: Look, it was obviously a very big turnout, and it does reflect the fact that many Australians feel very strongly about this issue, and of course, the Prime Minister has made his comments about the protest over the weekend.
Andrew Clennell: Let's talk now about the tariffs result that Australia has achieved. The US kept us at that 10 per cent tariff level. What did the US Trade Secretary Howard Lutnick tell you on your phone call with him about why this decision was made?
Minister for Trade: Look, he made it clear to me that there was a lot of pressure within the American system to push that rate of 10 per cent up to a higher level, and that that had been resisted by the President, and he kept the level at 10 per cent.
Now we say 10 per cent is still too high. I mean, obviously, we welcome the fact that we didn't get an increase in that tariff. One of the obvious outcomes of that is that when you compare the tariff rate for Australia with many of our competitors in the United States, we are in a more competitive position than we were before this decision was made. We take no satisfaction in that, but it does give us the opportunity to sell more of our wonderful food and wine into the US system, and we'll be encouraging Australian companies to do exactly that.
But Mr. utnick was, I think, pleased that – we were pleased that we didn't get an increase, and we'll continue those discussions. I invited Mr. Lutnick to come to Australia. He said that those decisions [indistinct] and his diary was much freer, and I hope that we can take the opportunity now that these decisions have been made to ensure that we can continue to prosecute our argument that these tariffs are – they're certainly bad for the Australian economy, but they're also bad for the American economy.
Already, we're seeing an increase in inflation, an increase in unemployment. These are by‑products of those high tariffs, and we'd like to see them removed.
Andrew Clennell: There's a bit of a joke around the place in Australian political circles that the fact the PM hasn't met the President yet could have helped us get a lower tariff. What do you say to that?
Minister for Trade: Look, we have been working at all levels of government to ensure that the Americans hear our argument that there was no justification for the tariffs in the first place, and there was certainly no justification for putting them up any higher.
We have a trade surplus with the United States. The United States sells us twice as much as we buy from them --
Andrew Clennell: The Opposition says ‑‑
Minister for Trade: Which makes absolutely ‑‑
Andrew Clennell: It's funny you mention that, because the Opposition said on Friday, we just got lucky, and that's the reason the US put the tariff rate, kept it the same, and they did the same with everyone else with a trade surplus; is that right?
Minister for Trade: Look, I don't think – well, you make your own luck in politics. When we got the $20 billion worth of tariffs removed from China, I suppose you could have said that was lucky. When we got our Free Trade Agreement with the United Kingdom, and we're now selling 500 per cent more beef into the United Kingdom, I suppose you could say that was lucky. When we got our Free Trade Agreement with India, where we're now selling 170 per cent more agricultural products in India, and when last Thursday the United Arab Emirates Free Trade Agreement was passed unanimously in the Australian Senate, I suppose you could say we got lucky there.
You make your own luck in this game, Andrew, and we've had a policy, and I mentioned it on Friday; cool, calm diplomacy, that's how you make gains in trading relationships, and we'll continue to do that. We don't use a loudspeaker to project our views; we sit down calmly and discuss these issues with our trading partners and we're going to continue to do that.
Andrew Clennell: In your view, did the decision around allowing in US beef imports, that you said on Sunday Agenda a week ago, was a departmental one, assist the US in their decision on the tariff level?
Minister for Trade: Look, I'm sure that, you know, that decision was well received; in fact, the President made a comment that he appreciated the fact that Australia had made that decision. But as I said a week and a half ago on your program, we don't mix biosecurity issues with trade issues; they're too important.
Andrew Clennell: Okay. I accept your position that all the proper biosecurity measures have been gone through. But did Mr. Lutnick, on the call to you, mention that beef decision, did he welcome it to you?
Minister for Trade: Look, look, look, look, I think it was welcomed in the American system, and as we know, President Trump made that comment himself that he was surprised that we had made that decision because he didn't see that decision coming. But we went through all of the processes that we ordinarily go through to ensure that we have, continue to have the highest --
Andrew Clennell: Did Mr. Lutnick mention it to you?
Minister for Trade: Look, look, look, we had a range of discussions when I chatted to him, and he certainly made it clear that the President, as he, himself, has announced, appreciated the decision.
Andrew Clennell: Do you think that was critical to where we find ourselves at though, or just one factor?
Minister for Trade: No, I don't think it was critical. We prosecuted our argument that we thought that the tariff issues were, you know, was not appropriate for the United States to impose tariffs on Australia. We have a Free Trade Agreement, that Free Trade Agreement is 20 years old, it has specific provisions that make it clear that tariffs are not to be applied. We want the American government to honour the terms of that Free Trade Agreement. It was entered into freely 20 years ago.
Andrew Clennell: Yep.
Minister for Trade: It's been operating very successfully for both of our countries since that time, and that's the argument that I'm going to continue to pressure ‑‑
Andrew Clennell: Well, last ‑‑
Minister for Trade: ‑‑ on our American colleagues.
Andrew Clennell: Look, I've got to mention this: last time you were on with me on Sunday Agenda, you said you misspoke when you said there was a conversation about the US right to import beef into Australia between Donald Trump and Anthony Albanese, because Anthony Albanese corrected you on that.
Have you been able to ascertain since if Mr Albanese spoke about it in his replacement meetings with Scott Bessent and Jamieson Greer in Canada during the G7?
Minister for Trade: No, as you say, I made a mistake on that occasion, but I'm not aware that the issue has been raised by those American officials. Certainly, in the discussions that I had with Mr. Greer in Paris two months ago, he did not raise that as an issue with us.
Andrew Clennell: Okay. But did Mr Albanese and Mr Rudd raise it with those officials, do you know?
Minister for Trade: Not to my knowledge, Andrew.
Andrew Clennell: Where is our offer at; where does this leave our offer in relation to critical minerals? I mean, we've gone to them with this offer on critical minerals to say, "Look, lift the tariff and we can help you in this space". Is that now gone, or is this set for some time, this tariff level? Should we withdraw that? Where is that critical minerals offer at?
Minister for Trade: No, we shouldn't withdraw it, Andrew. We have presented an offer to the Americans in respect of critical minerals. That offer is still on the table, and when we get the opportunity to talk to the Americans next, we will continue to prosecute that argument. We think we have a very good offer that the Americans should pick up. It means, you know, improving the supply chain, guaranteeing the supply chain of critical minerals.
Australia has the largest reserves of critical minerals of any country in the world. We're happy to share them with the United States, and we think that that is something that the Americans should find attractive, and that we can offer to them to encourage them to reduce that tariff rate further.
Andrew Clennell: Do you think this keeps Kevin Rudd's job safe?
Minister for Trade: Look, Kevin's doing a very good job in the United States; he's exactly the right man for that job. And look, the proof of the pudding is in the eating. We have managed to keep our tariff rate at the lowest level of any country, and as I said earlier, that significantly improves our competitive position.
Just look at one product, Andrew, beef: we're now selling record amounts of beef into the United States despite the fact that there's a 10 per cent tariff.
Our major competitor to supplying the American market is Brazil. Brazil's now been hit with a 50 per cent tariff on their beef coming into the United States. So that significantly improves our competitive position in the United States, and I think that's going to lead to an increase in our exports, certainly in the area of beef.
Andrew Clennell: Well, there you go. Well, I wanted to ask now about the Economic Reform Roundtable, because it seems to me Jim Chalmers, the Treasurer, has a lot of enthusiasm about this, but the Prime Minister's not as enthusiastic. What do you think?
Minister for Trade: Oh, look, I don't think that's fair to say. I think they are equally enthusiastic about the Roundtable. Jim Chalmers, the Treasurer, has been doing a terrific job in that role. He delivered two consecutive surpluses for the first time in 20 years, inflation is coming down, unemployment is stable. Jim wants to engage with Industry to come up with new ideas as to how to take the country forward.
Andrew Clennell: Do you know whose idea it is?
Minister for Trade: In that respect I think ‑‑
Andrew Clennell: Is it Jim's idea, not Anthony Albanese's?
Minister for Trade: Look, you'd have to ask them the answer to that question.
Andrew Clennell: All right. Fair enough.
Minister for Trade: I know for sure, I know for sure that both Jim and the Prime Minister are fully behind the Roundtable, and I'm hopeful that some good ideas will come out of it. I myself have put some ideas forward to simplify our trading system. I'm hoping that's one of the items that gets discussed at the meeting.
Andrew Clennell: What does that involve? Cutting taxes or charges? What does it involve?
Minister for Trade: No, no, no, simplifying, simplifying, the way in which we require companies to fill out forms to import or export goods. We can do that far more efficiently; we can significantly improve the productivity on the wharves if we go down that track, and I've encouraged the Treasurer to give some consideration to that issue.
Andrew Clennell: Well, just finally, what do you make of this ACTU call ahead of the roundtable to say, let's look at charging more Capital Gains Tax and ending negative gearing laws on multiple properties?
Minister for Trade: Look, all of the parties who've got an interest in this will be coming up with their suggestions. I think what we should do is allow the process to go ahead, allow the various organisations in this country to put their best foot forward, put their best ideas forward, and then see what comes out of that at the end of the roundtable.
Andrew Clennell: Trade Minister Don Farrell, thanks so much for your time.
Minister for Trade: Thanks, Andrew.