Patricia Karvelas: To get the government's response to the new Trump tariffs and policy shifting. Also, on voluntary assisted dying and more. I spoke a little earlier to the Trade Minister, Don Farrell. Minister, welcome to Afternoon Briefing.
Minister for Trade and Tourism, Don Farrell: Thanks, Patricia.
Journalist: 12.5 per cent tariff slapped on Australia. Yes. You say you don't think it's a good idea, but what do you do to reverse it?
Minister Farrell: Well, we, we do what we did, for instance, with China. We put the arguments as to why this is absolutely the wrong decision. Overwhelmingly, we purchase more goods from the United States than we sell them. You don't do this to a good trading partner like Australia. So, my job is to continue my discussions with my counterpart, Jamieson Greer.
Journalist: Have you reached out to him?
Minister Farrell: Look, I spoke to him a couple of weeks ago.
Journalist: Did you know this was coming?
Minister Farrell: We knew this was coming. I have to say it was an acrimonious discussion with Jamieson Greer because we do not accept the proposition that this tariff should be imposed on us because of what we do in the space of modern slavery. Australia has one of the most sophisticated systems of modern Australia, modern slavery. It can be better. We're trying to improve it. But the idea that the Americans should impose this tariff, an increase in tariff on us for this reason is, is just crazy, to be honest with you. And the idea that India or Pakistan has a better regime in terms of modern slavery than Australia is simply incorrect.
Journalist: Is this something that the Prime Minister needs to call Donald Trump? I know he's got his number now, he said, and raise with him because, yeah, you make a good point about comparisons with those nations. This is meant to be our strongest ally, and they put us in a basket of perpetrators of modern slavery, which you say is unacceptable. What's the repercussion for the United States?
Minister Farrell: Well, we have to keep pushing the argument. When I first came to this job four years ago, Patricia, we had a $20 billion set of tariffs on us from China. People said, oh, look, you're not going to reverse those. Well, we did. We reversed every one of them. Six months ago, we had a tariff on beef with the United States that's been removed. You, you get these results by continuing to push your argument. And if your argument is correct and our argument is correct, this, this tariff regime simply pushes up prices for American consumers. Everything that they're going to buy from us now that's subject to this new tariff will be more expensive. That simply makes things more expensive for American consumers. So, my job and the Prime Minister's and the Foreign Ministers', our job is to convince the Americans that they're going down absolutely the wrong path.
Journalist: So, will the Prime Minister call Donald Trump over this?
Minister Farrell: Well, I'm sure that in the discussions that the Prime Minister has in the future with the Prime Minister, with the President, this will be one of the issues that are discussed by them. We do raise these sorts of issues with the most, at the most senior level. The Prime Minister has done that overnight with the United Kingdom. And so, we'll continue to do this. We have a very strong argument here, Patricia. This is the wrong decision that the Americans have made. We've got to convince them to reverse that decision.
Journalist: Ok, you've got to convince them. You said an acrimonious conversation with Jamieson Greer. Give me a sense of how acrimonious you're talking about here?
Minister Farrell: Well, because they, they said, look, we are looking at imposing a higher tariff on Australia because of the issue of modern slavery. And I say to them, look, we have a very strong regime in terms of our approach to modern slavery. Can it be better? Of course it can. And we are, we are trying to strengthen it, not because of anything the Americans have done, but simply because that's the right thing to do. And our Attorney General, Michelle Rowland is dealing with this issue. We are going to improve our modern slavery.
Journalist: So, is there a process now with the United States where you will demonstrate what you're prepared to do and then it'll be looked at? What sort of process have you agreed upon?
Minister Farrell: Look, there is a process and this was the start of that process was where I had my first conversation on this issue with Jamieson Greer. We made all of our submissions as to why this was not the correct approach. Don't forget, 60 other countries have now been lumped into the same category as us. I mean, we're not, we're not orphans in respect of what the Americans have done here. But it is the wrong decision. We're going to continue to prosecute our argument, as I say -
Journalist: Just through words, just through persuasion or are there levers you can pull?
Minister Farrell: Look, we have made the decision that we're not going to retaliate. We're not going to impose tariffs on the United States just because they've imposed tariffs on us. And that was the approach we took with China. We could have easily imposed tariffs on, on Chinese exports. We think we've got the right decision, the right moral argument.
Journalist: Do you think you can turn it around? Do you think they'll back down from this 12.5 per cent?
Minister Farrell: Look, I don't say it'll be easy, but it wasn't easy in the China situation, what we've got -
Journalist: Who's easier to negotiate with, out of interest? The Chinese or the Americans?
Minister Farrell: They're both pretty tough, to be honest with you, Patricia. But my job, my job is to deal with this issue. And one of the ways that we're dealing with it is trying to diversify our trading relationship. So, you'll know from earlier discussions we've had this year, we've now got a free trade agreement with the European Union. That's not just one additional free trade agreement. That's effectively 27 new free trade agreements, almost doubling the number of countries that we have free trade agreements with. We've got to get out there; we've got to find partners in the rest of the world that don't believe in tariffs, but believe in free and fair trade. And that's my job to do, and that's what I'm doing. And I'm calling on the coalition to get on board with the free trade agreement that we've got with the EU, 27 new countries, a population of 450 million, a $31 trillion economy. We need more partners around the world who believe, like us, in free and fair trade.
Journalist: I need to ask you about a pretty controversial idea that's essentially passed at the conference, and that's voluntary assisted dying and allowing for Telehealth consultations with doctors in relation to voluntary assisted dying. That is currently not allowed at the Commonwealth level. Labor is still seeking now to change it. The left had the numbers on that. The right decided not to call on a vote. How do you feel about this issue?
Minister Farrell: Well, like a lot of social issues in the Labor Party, these are conscience issues, and every member of the Labor Party has the right to vote in accordance with their own conscience on this. If the matter does come before the Parliament, then obviously in the Senate there'll be a decision on a conscience vote and it'll either be approved or not approved based on the way in which people.
Journalist: You wouldn't support it?
Minister Farrell: No, I don't support. Well, I don't support voluntary euthanasia. I opposed that legislation when it was discussed at the federal level. I've opposed it at the state level.
Journalist: Does it worry you that the party is going, basically is trying to force this on so that the policy changes? It will. It does compel you, doesn't it, to look at this issue?
Minister Farrell: Well, one of the things, when you get elected to Parliament, when you get elected to the Senate, you have to be able to make these decisions. You've got to be able to look at all of the Issues. I have looked closely at the issue of euthanasia. I've taken a personal decision not to support it. And the good thing about the Labor Party in these regards is you've got the right to exercise a vote in accordance with the conscience. And that's exactly what I'll be doing.
Journalist: Were you disappointed, though, that it's official policy for the party now?
Minister Farrell: Look, I don't. It's not an issue of disappointment. I think the important thing here is that whatever way you think on this issue, and I respect that people have different points of view on this issue, I and my colleagues will all get the right to make this decision based on the way in which they believe this issue should be dealt with.
Journalist: I have to ask. You are known to be a right-wing factional leader. Don Farrell. You know that you were once called a faceless man, although I see your face all the time.
Minister Farrell: So, yeah, I think it was a bit tough.
Journalist: Oh. Does that upset you?
Minister Farrell: No.
Journalist: Harassed you?
Minister Farrell: No, no, no. Look, I do have a face.
Journalist: You do.
Minister Farrell: And it may only be a face that a mother could love, but I do reject the suggestion that I'm faceless.
Journalist: Ok. No, I agree. You are a Minister, not faceless. But this conference, it's all. Everything's been stitched up neatly outside of public glare. I've been to Labor conferences where there's passionate debates, saw it happen over same sex marriage, for instance, on the floor. Have you lost a bit of that magic for the party?
Minister Farrell: No, no, no. This is a flowering of democracy.
Journalist: You just can't see the flowers.
Minister Farrell: It's a flowering of democracy. There is no other political party in this country that opens itself up to the community. You can come in here and watch the debates, you can watch them on TV, and then you can make a decision about whether we've made the right decisions or the or the wrong decisions. Look, I think stability is a good thing. I think that's been one of the hallmarks of Prime Minister Anthony Albanese.
Journalist: So, was this one of the deliberate elements of this to try and establish in the public's eye that you're not going to be having those conversations?
Minister Farrell: I don't say it's deliberate, but this Prime Minister, in a way that I don't think I've ever seen any other Prime Minister goes out of his ways to try and get consensus. And it's his consultative way, whether it's in cabinet; he's extremely consultative. If you've got a, if you've got a particular point of view and you want to get that point of view across at the cabinet level. This Prime Minister listens to you. Doesn't always agree with you, but he'll listen to you. He does the same with his parliamentary colleagues. He does the same with the membership. You know, we're open. You know, you can see the considerations that this party has gone to, to make our policy positions for the next election. So, you won't be left in any doubt at all as to what Labor believes in and what it's going to be taking to the next election.
Journalist: Minister, thanks for coming in.
Minister Farrell: Great to be with you, Patricia, as always.