Andrew Clennell: Joining me live now is the Trade Minister, Don Farrell. Don Farrell, thanks for coming on after a late-night flight into Australia after this last-minute trip to Brussels. So we may as well start with that.
Are we about to see an Australia-EU free trade deal? The papers tell us so. What sticking points have been ironed out, and what will this mean to Australians?
Minister for Trade and Tourism, Don Farrell: Good to be with you, Andrew, and yes, we are closer than we have been in 25 years to getting an agreement for a Free Trade Agreement with the Europeans. Unfortunately we're not there yet.
We'd set aside the Thursday to do the negotiations, both with the Trade Minister, Maroš Šefčovič, and the Agriculture Minister, Minister Hansen. We made progress on the Thursday, and the negotiations spilled into the Friday.
Unfortunately, I can't say that we have an agreement yet, but we have significantly reduced the issues between us. Over the last three or four months there were probably ten issues that divided us from Europe. We've significantly reduced the number of areas of disagreement, but there's still more work to be done. If getting a Free Trade Agreement with Europe was easy, somebody else would have done it.
But I am determined that we demonstrate to the rest of the world that those countries that believe in free and fair trade can reach agreements.
As you know, in the last term we've reached agreements with the UK, our trade in beef, for instance, to the UK is up almost 300 per cent, we've reached agreements with the Indians, our trade there is up almost 200 per cent, and of course towards the end of last year our agreement with the United Arab Emirates came into force, and already our beef sales to the UAE have doubled.
That's in the circumstance, Andrew, where our trade last year hit a record level, at $1.3 trillion.
Andrew Clennell: All right.
Minister Farrell: Never in our history
Andrew Clennell: Could I just
Minister Farrell: have we had that much trade. But to answer your question
Andrew Clennell: Yeah.
Minister Farrell: what does it mean for Australia? If we can reach agreement with the Europeans in the next few weeks, then we're looking at something like a $10 billion annual boost to our trade and to our businesses. And of course, for a country that very much relies on trade - one in four jobs rely on trade - if you're an outward facing company, your profits are higher. That will be very good news for Australian business, and it will be particularly good news for Australian farmers.
Andrew Clennell: What will be cheaper? Like, there's speculation cars would be cheaper.
Minister Farrell: Look, what we are proposing to do is remove all tariffs on European goods coming into Australia. Obviously that significantly reduces the cost of those goods. The luxury car tax is on the table, and if we can reach an agreement that will of course be part of that agreement.
But until everything is agreed, Andrew, in this game, nothing is agreed. So at this point in time we don't have an agreement. I don't want to jinx it
Andrew Clennell: Okay. But are all the parameters agreed and it's a matter of Ursula von der Leyen coming out here in four weeks and meeting Anthony Albanese? That's what I read this morning. Is that a fair caricature of where things are at?
Minister Farrell: No.
Andrew Clennell: unless they change their mind?
Minister Farrell: No. No, it's more than that. There are still some issues outstanding, and
Andrew Clennell: Is that over beef and lamb?
Minister Farrell: Look, I'm not, as much as I'd like to do the negotiations for a Free Trade Agreement with you, Andrew, I'm sure it would be much easier to negotiate with you than it would be maybe it might be harder but, no, look, I don't want to do the negotiations for a Free Trade Agreement on Sky News, as much as I'd like to.
I've established a really good working relationship with my counterpart, Maros Sefcovic. He was here in Australia in November last year. We made progress, we sent our officials away, they've been working busily over the last four months. They're still over in Europe continuing to nut things out. I expect, perhaps not this week, but next week to have a further Teams meeting with my counterpart so that we can try and nail this agreement down.
Andrew Clennell: All right. Well, let's
Minister Farrell: I wish I could say the agreement has been reached. We're close; we're closer than we've been in 25 years, but unfortunately, Andrew, there's still more work to be done.
Andrew Clennell: This business around prosciutto just briefly, has that been sorted at the moment?
Minister Farrell: Look, I believe
Andrew Clennell: Feta, prosciutto sorry.
Minister Farrell: all of those issues will be sorted. I have to say that was an issue that continued to be discussed very extensively on Friday. So we haven't yet resolved those issues, but as I say, I believe what they call geographical indicators, that those issues, which include a range of Australian products, if we can get an across the board deal, we will be able to resolve those issues.
Andrew Clennell: All right.
Minister Farrell: But again I say that was an issue that was extensively discussed on Friday. We still have not got agreement on that, but I'm optimistic that the enthusiasm on both sides to get a free and fair agreement will result in all of those issues being resolved.
Andrew Clennell: All right. Let's move on 'cause we've got a bit to talk about. The Liberal leadership change, Sussan Ley and Ted O'Brien, quite a vanilla team in a sense, no disrespect to them. Do you see Angus Taylor and Jane Hume as more or less formidable as opponents?
Minister Farrell: Well, I should say this at the outset, Andrew, I had a good working relationship with Sussan Ley, a Special Minister of State. I had significant interaction with her and her office, and I found her good to deal with, and I wish her all the very best into the future.
The leadership of the Liberal Party, well, they can decide themselves who their leaders have been. I have to say I don't think I've ever met Angus Taylor, but I do have a good working relationship with Jane Hume. I think in Australian politics it's important not only that you have a good government, and of course, I think Anthony Albanese projects a sea of tranquillity in an age of uncertainty, but it's also important that you have a strong Opposition. I think Australian democracy; the Westminster system works best.
So good luck to the new team, but as a government we'll be focused on the issues that are important to the Australian people; cost of living, interest rates, getting them down, continuing to work for the Australian people. That's our focus, and that's what we'll continue to do.
Andrew Clennell: Sea of tranquillity, fair dinkum. Is it less or more formidable was my question though; are they less or more formidable, just briefly, than Sussan Ley and Ted O'Brien?
Minister Farrell: I'll leave that to the media to make that judgment. All I can say is Anthony Albanese and our team are totally focused on delivering for the Australian people. We get up, I get up everybody single day thinking, in my space, in trade and tourism, how can I do more for Australian businesses, Australian consumers, that make their life easier and make this country more prosperous.
We've been doing that over the last few years. I mentioned that figure of $1.3 trillion worth of trade; our trade numbers are going up, I want them to continue to go up. We're not resting on our laurels here, Andrew, we want to do more for the Australian people, and that's what Anthony Albanese and the Government will be doing.
Andrew Clennell: Anyway, Don Farrell, the sea of tranquillity might not be the South China Sea. Let's talk about this AUKUS announcement today, an announcement in Adelaide by the PM for $3.9 billion for the Osborne submarine shipyard. Tell us the detail of this; when will the shipyard be completed? How important is it to the AUKUS arrangements?
Minister Farrell: Look, unfortunately, Andrew, I'm not the Defence Minister or the Prime Minister. I understand he'll be standing up with Premier Malinauskas, a very good friend of mine and a man who faces an election in four weeks, which we're hoping will see his government returned.
The figure you've mentioned is the correct one, $3.9 billion. I'm sure the Prime Minister will be able to go into greater detail on that, but look, this is really good news for Australia. We’re progressing our defence capabilities, but more importantly, of course, it's great for South Australia: thousands of jobs, well-paying jobs, skilled jobs right here in Osborne, and a really good announcement. One that I think will be supported by the Australian community.
As I say, in an age of uncertainty around the rest of the world we need to be doing our job to defend this country. Those nuclear submarines which are going to be built in Osborne will contribute very, very significantly to that, and it's a really good story for Australia and South Australia.
Andrew Clennell: Let me ask now about your Special Minister of State portfolio; a couple of expenses issues at the end of last year. We know Attorney General, Michelle Rowland, had to pay some costs of a family trip to Perth, her children flew business class. Do you know what element of that trip she had to pay back? Was it for the flights in total or the business class component, and what didn't meet IPEA's standards.
Minister Farrell: I don't know the specifics of that, Andrew. Those issues are dealt with by IPEA. We have an independent expenses authority; we have that for the express purpose of dealing with these issues; they deal with Members of Parliament directly. Although I'm responsible for IPEA, I don't control what they do in a day to day sense, and those issues are dealt with directly between the Member of Parliament and the independent expenses authority.
Andrew Clennell: All right. I don't think we've had a determination yet in relation to Sports Minister Anika Wells; she referred her travel. Why is it taking so long for a determination, do you know?
Minister Farrell: I don't know the answer to that question, Andrew, but IPEA are very thorough. I'm sure they're doing the job that we've given them to do. They examine all of these issues, and they deal with the Ministers in this case, or the Members of Parliament directly. This is not something I get directly involved in.
Andrew Clennell: All right. Let me ask about Greens Senator, Sarah Hanson Young. She finally came on Sky during the week, and Peter Stefanovic asked her about her travel. It was uncovered she spent $50,000 on flights for her lobbyist husband who many of us know, Ben Oquist, he's appeared on Sky so he could travel between her house in Adelaide and his house in Canberra, 78 different trips. She told Sky during the week she won't do it anymore, even though she was entitled to.
Now Anthony Albanese announced some rule changes in December, but am I to take it from that they don't change this entitlement? Should it be changed even further the way this has been spent? I mean in this case it's effectively so a couple can live in two homes, not a situation where a child is accompanying a parent to work, for example.
Minister Farrell: Each individual has to make their own decision about how they comply with the rules, and so obviously Senator Hanson Young has made a determination about how she will apply the rules.
The rules have changed, the entitlements, or the travel arrangements have been reduced. Obviously it's an obligation on me and every other Member of Parliament to comply with those new rules.
Andrew Clennell: Indeed they were changed around December 23 by the PM. Would that affect her situation, or would she still have been able to fly Ben between Adelaide and Canberra in the entitlements?
Minister Farrell: Well, from what you're telling me I was negotiating a Free Trade Agreement in Europe when this conversation took place, and I must admit I haven't caught up with the specifics of it since I got back at 11 o'clock last night.
But each individual, each MP has to understand the rules and has to comply with the rules, that includes me and every other Member of Parliament.
Andrew Clennell: All right. Probably no surprise I'm going to ask about you now. So you became a story at the end of last year, Don Farrell, because you spent more than 100 grand since 2022 for flights for your wife and adult kids. Can this be justified, and will the rule changes affect this entitlement? I think they will, won't they, because your trips included flying a family member to a complimentary meal at Uluru and to a performance at the Opera House reportedly. Why did you elect to do that? Is it a situation where, I guess, who would know the rules better than the Special Minister of State?
Minister Farrell: Well, the first observation I'd make, Andrew, is that I've complied strictly with every single rule in this area, and to the best of my knowledge nobody has said otherwise.
We didn't fly to Uluru for the reason that you mentioned. As the Tourism Minister of Australia, I was invited by Voyages, the company that owns the tourism operations in Uluru, to present 18 graduation certificates to Indigenous hospitality workers who were then going to farm out to hospitality places, hotels, and restaurants in the Australian bush. I was honoured to be invited to do that, and I was successful in presenting all of those 18 awards. And yes, my wife did accompany me to that event, as she does to many events.
After we had our meeting to present those 18 awards to those very impressive young Indigenous workers, I then met with 20 tourism operators at Uluru in the Red Centre who had been struggling because of some of the events that had occurred in Alice Springs in the lead up to that, and we worked out a program to support them in rebuilding tourism, and in the lead up to the last election
Andrew Clennell: Sure.
Minister Farrell: myself and well, you've asked me the question, Andrew, I think it's
Andrew Clennell: Okay, no, go on. Go on, go on.
Minister Farrell: only fair that I answer it.
Andrew Clennell: Go on.
Minister Farrell: There has been misrepresentation about what happened on that occasion. I met with those 20 operators, we came up with an $8.5 million package, which Marion Scrymgour and I announced in the lead up to the last election.
I'm the Tourism Minister for Australia, Andrew. Like it or not, that means I have to travel around the country in order to promote Australian tourism.
In the next few weeks, for the first time since COVID, we will have a larger number of tourists coming to this country. Uluru is a really important part of that. I make no apologies for handing out awards to Indigenous hospitality workers. I make no apologies for supporting Australian tourism operators in the Red Centre. I think that is my job, Andrew, I have to say. My job is to go around this country in my tourism capacity promoting Australia, going overseas to promote Australia.
Look, I could sit on my couch with a beer watching the TV. I choose to go around the country and around the world to promote Australia. I'd ask you to have a look at my record in this regard: $1.3 trillion of trade, a record trade amount. Look at China - $20 billion worth of new trade, not just one year, Andrew, every year.
Andrew Clennell: I understand, Don Farrell. I guess your position there does pass the pub test because of all the hard work you've been doing. Thanks very much for your time. Unfortunately we're out of time. Thank you.
Minister Farrell: Oh, we can do it again any time you like, Andrew. Nice talking with you.