Senator the Hon Don Farrell, Minister for Trade and Tourism: Can I welcome all our good friends from the media to the so-called lion's den. This is a real one. Given that we are here at the safari park, the Monarto Safari Park. And can I welcome my very good friend Todd McClay from New Zealand, my very close working partner on the issue of trade. Now you might ask, why are we here at a safari park? Well, one of my portfolios beyond trade, of course, is tourism. And this magnificent new safari park that's just been opened by myself and the Premier in the last few weeks, we thought was a good opportunity to present this beautiful park to the people of New Zealand. If they're interested in making a visit to South Australia, as we know many of them are, this is an absolutely fantastic spot to visit. So, we're very pleased you decided to come to this safari park with us.
We have an extremely close relationship with New Zealand. Our closer economic relationship is one of the standout trade relationships in the world. And this is my fourth meeting as an Australian Minister with my New Zealand counterparts. But we think we can do more in a world that's becoming increasingly more difficult for trade. We think we can set an example to the rest of the world about just how successful trading relationships can be. And there's been no greater success from Australia's point of view than our relationship with New Zealand. There's much more that we can do, and today's meeting, of course, has gone through all of those issues. For instance, in the case of standards, the more we can ensure that our standards apply both to New Zealand and Australia, the greater trade opportunities that we can engage in. So, we're looking forward to doing more with New Zealand and set an example for the rest of the world.
Now, we don't just work with New Zealand in a two-way way. Last week, Todd and I were in Malaysia, where we were building relationships not just with the ASEAN region, because that was the purpose of the meeting, but with other countries right around the world. And we think as nations we can do more together on that international stage. Later in the year, Todd will be coming over for the CPTPP meeting. This is one of the great examples of a trade agreement that's top class, one of the best agreements in the world, great competition from other countries to participate and to join together. And so we are looking forward to building on the good work that we've already done in the CPTPP together. Australia is hosting it this year. And one of the interesting things about it, of course, is that the Europeans have expressed an interest in coming to the meeting and my good friend, the European Trade Minister, Mr. Šefčovič, will be participating.
The final thing I'd like to talk about is what we're doing on the world stage at the World Trade Organisation. There will be a meeting of the World Trade Organisation in March of next year. Both Australia and New Zealand have great ambition of reforming the WTO to make it fit for purpose, to ensure that all of the things that our two countries are doing together can, in fact, be reflected on the world stage. Australia believes in free and fair trade. We want to do more trade, not less trade. We want to do more trade because what we know is that if you're an outward looking Australian company, your profits are likely to be higher. More importantly, the wages of your staff are likely to be higher. So, we believe very strongly in free and fair trade, and I look forward to doing more with New Zealand and the rest of the world. Later, over the weekend, of course, I'm taking Todd and his wife to our vineyard in the Clare Valley so he can see firsthand some of the wonderful, clean and green food and wine that Australia, but particularly South Australia, and particularly the Clare Valley, has to offer.
All yours, Todd.
The Hon Todd McClay MP, NZ Minister of Agriculture, Minister of Forestry, Minister for Trade and Investment and Associate Minister of Foreign Affairs: Well, Don, thank you very much. And ladies and gentlemen, good afternoon. It's a privilege and a pleasure to be here. Don is right. I very easily can say that our most important relationship anywhere in the world, New Zealand, is with Australia. And when it comes to trade, you know, businesses across the Tasman have worked as hard as our governments have to grow trade, to create jobs, to pay our citizens more. This is an opportunity for us to not only, you know, draw attention to the success of the Closer Economic Relations agreement, but also to deliver on the objectives set by our two Prime Ministers when they met earlier this year in Queenstown in New Zealand to deepen the Single Economic Market, to grow the CER agreement and to find ways to bring down barriers and create greater certainty for our businesses, both in trade and investment across the Tasman. New Zealand-Australia work extremely well together around the world. We have very similar approach to trade. You know, good rules that are fair, that, you know, increase exports in two directions and grow that certainty. And so, it's a pleasure to be here and to join with Don. I think this is my third visit to Australia this year, and there'll be one more, as Don said, for the CPTPP meeting.
In all occasions we've been focusing on how we can, you know, remove rules that get in the way of business, simplify them and to bring costs down for New Zealand and Australian businesses in their trade. You know, in a world at the moment where there is uncertainty around trade, our job as two governments and two Trade Ministers is to create greater certainty so exporters can choose for themselves where they want to put effort, where they would like to sell their goods and their services. And we have a very simple and clear message for them. The two governments of Australia and New Zealand are committed to, you know, bringing down barriers and increasing certainty, driving down costs to your benefit. And in turn, we would ask you to join with us to grow trans-Tasman trade and find ways to invest in each other's economies that will grow our presence not only around the Asia-Pacific, but in many other parts of the world. With that in mind, thanks for your generosity and for hosting us here. He's brought me to the lion's den to negotiate as tough as Australian negotiators always have. But I can tell you it's a privilege and a pleasure to be here. And on my part, I'll do my very best over the next day or two to help grow your local economy through consumption of food and wine.
Farrell: We're really pussycats when it comes to negotiations with New Zealand. Alright, questions?
Journalist: In your discussions today, did you discuss how we could better work together as two countries to better capitalise on the Indo-Pacific, specifically [indistinct]?
Farrell: Yeah, look, I did mention that last week we were in ASEAN. I think we were very warmly, both countries, were very warmly accepted into the ASEAN fold. Australia, through Austrade, have put 22 new people into the ASEAN region. Too often in the past, I think we've flown over Southeast Asia to deliver goods into China, into Japan, into South Korea. Now I think we're focused very much on our region. It's a growing region, both population-wise and economically. Both of our countries are very well-received. We have a really good, clean and green image for our agricultural and wine produce. And I think there's an opportunity now to do things in Southeast Asia well beyond what we've been able to do in the past.
Todd.
McClay: Yeah, Australia and New Zealand have a number of trade agreements with Southeast Asia. From the RCEP agreement, which, you know, countries are now looking, other countries are looking to join, to the AANZFTA agreement, Australia-New Zealand, with ASEAN countries, which was upgraded and entered into force earlier this year. That gives us a real opportunity, our businesses in that market. But one of the things I think that we hear collectively from Australia-New Zealand businesses when they enter some of these markets in different countries, their approach and standards can be different. Not the way that they're treated, tariff rates are clear, but the ease of which they do business. So, the real big opportunity for us to grow exports and grow trade with Southeast Asia is getting that greater certainty for businesses when they go in there. If you go into one country, when you go to another, you’re treated very, very similarly.
You know, the reason that we have negotiated and concluded these trade agreements in New Zealand-Australia, with the ASEAN nations, is to give that certainty and to make it easier to trade. It's something that the governments of those countries also want to do. And so, the real opportunity in the coming years is collectively to advance that conversation with ASEAN nations and saying that if we can simplify the rules to get goods and services across our borders in both directions, two-way trade will grow amongst all of our countries. And directly that means companies that earn more and pay their workers, their citizens more.
Journalist: How important is this relationship with Australia at the moment, given the state of the global trade market? Obviously, New Zealand is hit so much harder when it comes to those tariffs from Trump.
McClay: Look, it's always been an important relationship and irrespective of the uncertainty that happens around the world, there are challenges when it comes to trade and trade rules at the moment, and the system has been shaken. But New Zealand and Australia stand locked at the hip to ensure that we can advocate for the benefits of trade. Our economies have grown as a result of producing high-quality, safe food and fibre and providing services that the world’s consumers want. We've just got to find better ways to have our exporters get those things to market.
But for New Zealand, as with Australia, the world is always a challenging place when it comes to trade. We are two nations who, our citizens, do things exceptionally well, and others will always try to protect. My job and Don's job as Trade Ministers is to bring those barriers down, to promote our companies and to make it easier for them as we level the playing field. And we will continue to do that together.
Farrell: I think it's worth noting that, certainly at my meeting with the Americans last week in Malaysia, we continue to prosecute the argument that tariffs are the wrong way to go. If a country imposes a tariff on you, then they're saying that we want to buy less of your goods. And from Australia's point of view, not only are we prosecuting the argument that we shouldn't be subject to new tariffs, but nor should our friends in New Zealand or anywhere else in the world. Free and fair trade increases your prosperity of your citizens. Why have both of our countries been so prosperous over the years? We've been able to engage in free and fair trade. We don't want tariffs to apply to Australia, but nor do we want tariffs to apply to New Zealand. And we will continue to prosecute the argument that it's the wrong course of action, it's the wrong economic course of action, to go down the path of increased tariffs.
Journalist: I have some questions on another matter. I don't know if AAP want wants to--.
Farrell: Dom, if you've got any questions.
Journalist: I do. I do have a few questions for Todd and yourself.
Farrell: Yes. Okay. Fire away.
Journalist: I just wanted to start with, are you seeing more interest in CPTPP given volatility around trade barriers and the tariffs?
Farrell: I'm sorry, I just missed that question, Dom.
Journalist: Are you seeing more interest from other nations, you mentioned the EU wanted to join talks around the CPTPP, given the volatility around trade barriers and tariffs?
Farrell: Yes. Well, the CPTP, CTPPP [sic] is a very ambitious trade agreement that has been very beneficial to both of our countries and all of those countries that are part of it. As a result, we've recently seen the United Kingdom wanting to join. And last year in New Zealand, we were able to add the United Kingdom to the group.
In the last few weeks, we've seen an interest from the European Union in having discussions with us about how they can interact with the CPTPP. But on top of that, there's now more than half a dozen countries around the world that can see the benefits of free and fair trade and want to join. So, countries like Uruguay, like Costa Rica, like Indonesia, just to name a few, have expressed an interest in joining our group.
So, when we meet in a few weeks’ time, we'll be talking amongst ourselves about just who and under what circumstances we admit other countries. The important thing to remember about the CPTPP is that every decision has to be a consensus decision. So, if we add additional countries, then that's got to be agreed by all of the existing parties to the CPPTP [sic]. So, we'll have continuing discussions and of course, as part of that will be the very close relationship between Australia and New Zealand.
Journalist: On critical minerals. Sorry, unless -
Farrell: Yep. Fire away.
Journalist: Yeah, on critical minerals, are we offering the US stakes in any critical mineral reserves? And how would that look? How would that operate in practise?
Farrell: So, when I was in Malaysia last week, one of the things that we discussed with the United States Trade Representative was access to our critical minerals. Those discussions are underway. I think there's interest from both Australia's point of view and the United States’ point of view in reaching agreement on the future of critical minerals.
Earlier this week, I was a kilometre underground at Roxby Downs with the Premier, where we announced the doubling of copper production at Olympic Dam. So, at the moment we produce about 300,000 tonne of high-grade copper, which is one of the critical minerals that we're talking about with the Americans. The decision was by BHP was to invest to double that production to 600,000 tonnes of high-grade copper per year.
So, we've got the critical minerals that the world needs, we believe we've got the technology to extract it and certainly, in the case of BHP, to produce that high-quality product to the rest of the world. We want to be one of the countries that ensures that we have great supply chains to ensure that we can not only produce the product but to supply it to the rest of the world, whether it's in the part of the renewable space or with high tech. Because high tech, of course, needs all of these critical minerals.
So, yes, we're having discussions with the Americans. Those discussions have not yet been finalised, but we'll continue to engage very positively with, with the United States on that score.
McClay: If I may, we too, sorry - we too have done a survey and taken a stocktake of, you know, minerals in New Zealand and have a number of rare earth minerals that are available. There's a lot of interest from around the world in this, and I think it will be quite a competitive process as the government moves forward to make those available to the private sector and others.
I expect in that interest a significant number of Australian companies will show interest across the Tasman and will be very welcome to come and look at how we might extract that to grow the wealth for all New Zealanders, but at the same time provide the minerals the world needs to grow economies and meet demand of energy.
Journalist: One for both of you, the same question. Is there room for a joint bid to go to the US if it comes to any agreement on critical minerals, or to kind of provide a united front in case there's tariffs imposed on any critical minerals? In terms of, how do I say it, I guess to offer a more enticing offer to the US President.
McClay: Well, look, I can start with that. We're always very keen to work closely with Australia, particularly if it's good for, you know, the economies, our two economies at the same time sends a very clear message of the benefits of trade. But ultimately, I would be surprised if we saw tariffs on critical minerals because they are in demand and someone else would always want to buy them.
Farrell: Yeah, look, we haven't had those sorts of discussions, Dom, you're often one step ahead of us. And so, we'll see what emerges in the weeks and months ahead.
Journalist: And then we've seen, sorry - well, one to both you again. We're both negotiating with India over a free trade agreement or over free trade agreements after stalled negotiations. Do you both see your respective countries signing anything soon, either in this space or more broadly, given the disruption to the global trading order?
Farrell: I might answer that question first. Dom, you're not going to believe this, but while I was talking in our meeting with Todd, I got a message from Minister Goyal in India to say, look, we're keen to keep the discussions about a free trade agreement, a new free trade agreement, because we already have a free trade agreement with India. We consider the Indians great friends. In our last term of government, we implemented the Indian free trade agreement. And already there's been significant benefits for our agriculture and our manufacturing into India. We believe we can do more. That means greater access for our agricultural products into India. My good friend Ravi is over here today. He's my chief negotiator. He's the toughest man I've ever met in my life. And we've given him the toughest job of negotiating that free trade agreement.
I believe we will get an extended free trade agreement with India. I think we want to send a message to the rest of the world that there are countries that still believe in free and fair trade. And Australia and India are in that category. India, population of 1.4 billion people. By the end of the end of this decade, they hope to have 700 million people in what they define as the middle class. What do we know about countries as their living standards rise? Well, they want better food, and they want better wine. There's no country, New Zealand excepted, who's in a better position to deliver that to the Indian community. India now represents our largest group of migrants, our largest group of tourists, and our largest group of students. We've got a really strong relationship. There's a great relationship with Prime Minister Modi and Prime Minister Albanese. I believe the opportunity is there to reach a new agreement to even do more with India. And that's one of my objectives in the weeks and months ahead.
McClay: Well, look, thank you. It's a very important relationship for New Zealand, too. And before we formed the government almost two years ago, we said that we'd make our relationship with India a strategic priority across all fronts, including trade. We formally launched negotiations with India earlier this year. When I visited India with my Prime Minister, we took our largest ever business delegation along for that week to look for ways to grow trade outside of a negotiation. We've had a number of formal rounds now, the most recent one was held in New Zealand just a few weeks ago. And we're making very, very good progress.
The challenge that you have in trade is actually good things take time to get there. But both sides are committed to delivering a high-quality trade agreement as quickly as possible. And it's a government, we're committed to doing it during this term of Parliament, which means before the end of last year. I think that is more than possible because you're seeing a willingness from India to reach high-quality trade agreements with countries of the world for a range of reasons, including they see that you build wealth through better access to markets, as well as, you know, choice for consumers through imports. But it is very clear that, you know, the Prime Minister of India had said as a result of higher tariffs placed on them by the US that they want to do a number of things, including accelerate negotiations with other countries. So, we remain optimistic that we can get a high-quality deal that's good for both India and New Zealand and will level the playing field so that, you know, New Zealand and Australian companies in the Indian market get to, you know, compete fairly. We know that when New Zealand and Australia is able to compete on an equal playing field, one of two things happen. We either both benefit or the consumers get greater choice. And that will be what we're after in that Indian market.
Farrell: Dom, you've had a pretty good run. We might see if anybody else has got some more questions.
Journalist: Yeah, that's it for me. Thanks, guys.
Journalist: Thank you [Indistinct] in reaction to the attack we saw recently on the UK synagogue.
Farrell: Well, we absolutely condemn the events in Manchester, and we very much commiserate with the loss of life there. There's no place for antisemitism in Australia, and there's certainly no place for antisemitism in the United Kingdom. And as a government, we absolutely and unequivocally condemn what's occurred and expressed our deepest sympathies to the loss of life in the UK.
Journalist: The attack has also sparked conversations here at home about an upcoming pro-Palestinian protest at the Sydney Opera House. Some of the Opposition suggesting that protests should be banned from sites of such significance to the public as the Opera House. What are the government's thoughts on that?
Farrell: Look, I'm sure that's a decision of the New South Wales Government. You know, one of the great attributes of Australia is our ability for free speech. But it's got to be done in a sensible way. This government condemns the attacks by Hamas almost two years ago now and will continue to condemn those attacks. We want the hostages released. We want peace in the Middle East, and that means peace for, peace and security for Israel, but also peace in Gaza. And that's the way in which we will prosecute our foreign policy in this area.
McClay: Thank you.
Journalist: Oh, can I just, sorry, can I just do one more, then if that's all right? Sorry, Don. I just wanted to know whether an agreement is possible, whether Australia is pushing for an agreement to sign when the Prime Minister visits the White House.
Farrell: You'll have to ask him.
Journalist: Thanks, will do.