ABC News Radio with Marius Benson

Subject: Leadership.

Transcript, E&OE

20 February 2012

SANDY ALOISI: It's looking increasingly likely that the 103 Labor Members of Federal Parliament will be voting again to choose a leader, possibly next Monday, when they gather in Canberra for the resumption of Parliament. It's only 20 months since they tossed out Kevin Rudd. With Party sentiment running so strongly against him, there was not even a formal vote. Now, he's being seen as gathering strength in his bid to take back the top job. Craig Emerson is one of the Gillard loyalists, fighting to shore up the Prime Minister's numbers. And he's speaking to Marius Benson.

MARIUS BENSON: Craig Emerson, in the current debate over Labor leadership, you are described as a 'Gillard loyalist'. Are you happy with that description?

CRAIG EMERSON: Perfectly happy with it, and have stated so time and time again. And am happy again to state on your program that I support Julia Gillard, and in no circumstances will that change.

BENSON: Well, can I put to you a question that was put to me several times at the weekend, at different gatherings, which is: 'Is she a goner? Is Julia Gillard a goner?'

EMERSON: She's a leader, and she's a leader with guts and a leader with vision. If you reflect on all the big policy calls, Julia Gillard has made the right calls, not only for a Labor Government, but for the country. Whether we are talking about putting a price on carbon, sharing the benefits of the mining boom more fairly through the mining tax, means testing the private health insurance rebate — all of those not only upon which Julia Gillard made the right call, but in fact she navigated them through the House of Representatives in what is, we know, a minority government. And that requires a lot of skill and it requires a lot of commitment to the future of this country, and that's what Julia Gillard has.

BENSON: You've said that the leadership of the Labor Party is being destabilised by a small group of MPs. How small? Because the Rudd forces are put at at least a third of the 103 Member Caucus now.

EMERSON: Yeah, I see that; it is a small group. I'm not a numbers counter as such but …

BENSON: Well, you have to be, don't you, if you nominate a small group?

EMERSON: I know the difference between small and large and medium — and this is small.

BENSON: And what's small out of 103: less than 30?

EMERSON: That's why I'm not going to go into a counting exercise with you, Marius. Frankly, I've got better things to do. But it is true that a small group is destabilising the ability of the Gillard Government to explain to the Australian people why the sorts of policies that I've just outlined to you are being implemented. The very fact that they are being implemented is being masked by this ongoing destabilisation.

BENSON: So how does this destabilisation … how can it be resolved? How can the leadership tensions, which are across all of the front pages, all the bulletins this morning, how can it be resolved? Does Julia Gillard need to call a vote?

EMERSON: I accept that there is widespread media coverage, which is the very point that I'm making. It's a matter for the Prime Minister, but what I can do and will do on your program is urge this small group to stop the destabilisation.

BENSON: So, how much blame does Kevin Rudd wear for this? Because it is now public that he was discussing his leadership ambitions with Andrew Wilkie in November. It's also published in the Fin Review today that he's been discussing his leadership ambitions with business leaders.

EMERSON: Well, I saw the conversation that Andrew Wilkie engaged in on television yesterday morning. Mr Rudd says that they essentially talked about foreign policy matters. Mr Wilkie said that they talked about leadership. We now have a difference of opinion between Mr Rudd and Mr Wilkie as to what they actually did speak about.

BENSON: Do you hold Kevin Rudd responsible for this distraction that you talk about?

EMERSON: Well, what I do know is that there is an active campaign, which is designed to prevent a Labor Government from getting its messages out on such important matters as those that we've just discussed, and a very important matter today on which a national discussion will occur over the coming months — and that's the outcome of the so-called Gonski review. And I think there is a real risk here, based on what's been happening before, that this very important national discussion could possibly be overshadowed by more talk of leadership. Now, that is in the hands of those who have taken on the task of destabilising the Government. What I'm urging is that they stop doing that so that we can have a national discussion about a fundamental Labor reform in the fundamental Labor reforming tradition that Julia Gillard has embraced. But I'm simply saying that there is a campaign on here and it's a campaign that is anti-Labor; it's against the interests of the Government of Australia, and it's against the national interest and it should stop.

BENSON: And it's being run by Labor people?

EMERSON: And it's being run by Labor people, which is quite appalling. Absolutely appalling and I think people are sickened by it.

BENSON: Craig Emerson, thanks very much.

EMERSON: Thank you. Thanks very much, Marius.

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