Sky News Agenda with Ashleigh Gillon

Subjects: Victorian election; Wikileaks; climate change.

Transcript, E&OE, proof only

30 November 2010

GILLON: Joining me now a panel of politicians today, the Trade Minister, Craig Emerson, and the Shadow Minister for Families, Housing and Human Services, Kevin Andrews. Good morning to both of you. Craig, let's start with you. How much harder is it going to be for Julia Gillard and your team to get this reform agenda going with another Liberal Premier around the COAG table? Are you worried, in particular, about these health reforms now?

EMERSON: Well, health reform is fundamentally important — it's very important for Victoria in particular. And John Brumby had, of course, signed up to that. I think the Victorian people would expect that Ted Baillieu, that he's in favour of hospital and health reform. I think that, by and large, we have worked okay with Liberal State Premiers in Western Australia, but there's a health reform issue there. There's also a problem with Julia Gillard's efforts to get a national occupational health and safety system up where Western Australia is opposing that. But, on the other hand, Ashleigh, in other areas the Western Australian Government has been quite good. So it's not necessarily the colour of the political persuasion, I think it's the attitude of the leader. But I'm certain that the people of Victoria are crying out for reform of our health and hospital system — more doctors, more nurses.

GILLON: Well of course, the former Prime Minister, John Howard, made it work for a number of years. Here's what he had to say when he was asked about his relationship with Premiers on the other side of the fence.

[Start of excerpt]

HOWARD: You can get along with premiers of another political persuasion if you understand the reality of it. And when you get into Government, although your political differences remain, there is a common purpose and there is a scepticism on the part of the electorate if you overdo the partisanship, and it does happen. But I found for most of the time that I was dealing with predominantly Labor premiers, I could get through my agenda, except in the last year when they really sort of did a number on me in relation to the Murray-Darling. But leaving that aside, a lot of the other time we got on quite well.

[End of excerpt]

GILLON: Kevin Andrews, no doubt the federal Liberal Party is going to try to use Ted Baillieu's election to its full advantage. He has already flagged he wants a full audit of Victoria's hospitals to get a handle on waiting lists in emergency departments, for example. We did just have, though, the Health and Hospital Reform Commission report which was pretty detailed. Do you think these sorts of delays and more reports and audits are really necessary in Victoria?

ANDREWS: In terms of health I think it's generally regarded around Australia that Victoria has probably the best health system. So Ted Baillieu and the Liberals in Victoria are not going to go into a system that's going to give away money or give away services just for added cost and bureaucracy to provide what's already provided here in Victoria.

So they are quite rightly going to ask for an audit of the hospital and health services in Victoria and to look at what they're actually going to gain in addition for the people of Victoria. So the sorts of slogans and bland assertions that we've got from Julia Gillard and the Federal Government are going to be put to the test not only by Colin Barnett in Western Australia but by Ted Baillieu in Victoria.

GILLON: Kevin Andrews, do you think that John Brumby's loss, that there were federal issues that played into that?

ANDREWS: There was quite clearly some crossover from Federal to State, as there is in any election. I mean, firstly, Labor has been going backwards right around Australia since 2007. They went backwards in Tasmania, in South Australia, and they've now gone backwards in Victoria. New South Wales and Queensland are likely to follow suit. So, this sense of drift from the federal Labor Government was clearly a factor that reinforced the views of Victorians.

Secondly, the clear difference that Victorians had when the Liberal Party said that they would not preference the Greens, was clearly a factor. People said to me over and over again on polling day that that was a factor. They saw that as a decisive; they didn't want the extreme radical left Green policies of the Greens Party having a major influence like they seem to be having in Canberra. This was particularly the case in country Victoria. If you look at East Gippsland, quite clearly country Victorians said 'we want nothing to do with the radical Greens agenda'.

GILLON: So Kevin Andrews, is there a lesson there then on the Federal scale for the Liberal Party when it comes to Greens preferencing?

ANDREWS: Oh look, I think there is. I think people want a party which stands up and says 'this is what we stand for', we don't want this cannibalisation that's going on or attempted to go on by the Greens. I think it's a real problem though for Labor. Because you've got the difference between those in the inner city seats who want to pander to the Greens' agenda versus the great majority of Australians out in the suburbs and regional parts of Australia who say that we want to get on with things which actually reduce our cost of living, that are going to make life more liveable rather than the increasing taxes that the Greens want to impose.

GILLON: Craig Emerson, we saw John Brumby yesterday in his news conference keep alluding to the fatigue factor. That voters just really were ready for a change, that it's a time factor, I guess.

Do you put it down to that as well, or do you agree that there could be some Federal issues that have played into that? There are always some, aren't there?

EMERSON: Oh well, certainly an 11-year-old Government that would have been a 15-year-old Government at the end of the next term is a relevant consideration in the minds of voters. But I was just fascinated to hear Kevin talking about slogans in relation to health reform. Tony Abbott as health minister said “no one should fret about an unreformed health system.” And what's his health reform policy? A three-word slogan — “local hospital boards.” That's it — local hospital boards. And you've already heard Kevin Andrews saying on behalf of the Coalition Ted Baillieu should be very careful about signing up to a $7 billion extra funding injection for a health and hospital reform program. So I think that bodes quite badly, I must say.

GILLON: What do you make though, going back to your side of politics in Victoria, Craig Emerson, of the names being tossed around as to who should take over from John Brumby? Do you think Daniel Andrews is the right person?

EMERSON: Look, I'm not an expert on Victorian State politics, and the last person they'd want advice from is probably me, or I'd be the second last; Kevin would be the last. So look, I'm not going to get involved in, you know, in the selection or barracking for who should become the Leader of the Opposition. The decision has been made. We absolutely respect the decision of the people of Victoria. That's what democracy is all about. We do want to work with the Baillieu Government. And I agree with John Howard. He said that it is possible to work with governments at the state level of various political persuasions. I think that's right.

Our reform agenda, I'd suggest, for the Council of Australian Governments is far more ambitious than John Howard's ever was, particularly in the area of creating for Australia a single national market, a seamless national economy, health reform, the whole education reform area. So I do hope that Ted will, having had a look at it, come on board for these reforms. And I agree with Mr Howard on this too, and that is that the Australian people would not look fondly on the idea of state governments of any political persuasion just playing politics at the expense of their own constituents.

GILLON: Well, you might need to get used to it, Craig Emerson, because as Kevin Andrews pointed out, we have that New South Wales poll coming up at the end of March next year, then Queensland voters are going to the polls as well, and the government there also is very unpopular. Expecting that this is the start of the, a number of Labor governments to start falling around the country?

EMERSON: Well, let's see what the people say. I think it's a bit early…

GILLON: It's pretty likely though, isn't it?

EMERSON: …for Kevin. Well, Kevin's counting his chickens. I mean, this is pretty typical of the Liberal Party that they've already won both the New South Wales and Queensland elections. I think the Queensland people and also the New South Wales people will be wondering about a Liberal Party that says we actually don't care how you, what you're going to do on polling day, we've already determined that we have the right to rule, we're the born to rule brigade and you have an obligation to elect us. And see, this is the problem at the Federal level. Tony Abbott is defining himself as being whatever Labor isn't, and he's saying 'elect me because I'm not the Labor Party, elect me because I'm not Labor'. The Australian people expect more of the Opposition in this country. They expect an Opposition to put forward alternative policies, not three-word slogans like “local hospital boards.”

GILLON: Kevin Andrews, I know you must be itching to jump in there. I'm sure there are a number of points that you disagree with.

ANDREWS: Look, I think it's about time Craig abandoned some of that old class rhetoric. The reality is that people want governments to actually…

EMERSON: What are you talking about, Kevin?

ANDREWS: …do things and deliver outcomes.

EMERSON: Absolutely, I agree with that.

ANDREWS: And the reason why they've been marking down Labor governments is because they're full of grand rhetoric and grand slogans but when it actually comes to delivering programs…

EMERSON: You're the king of the slogans.

ANDREWS: …on the ground, that's when they've got a real problem. And you know, Craig's complaining about three-word slogans and engaging in them himself. They want action and that's what the Victorian, new Victorian Government will deliver, some real action for transport, some real action for safety in the streets… .

EMERSON: “Real action”, there we go, straight out of election campaign, Kevin.

GILLON: Okay, well, we're going to look…

EMERSON: Dust it off. Dust off the election campaign.

GILLON: …at some of these federal issues just after this break. Kevin and Craig both stay with me. We'll be back after this short break.

GILLON: Welcome back to AM Agenda, Kevin Andrews and Craig Emerson are with me this morning. Of course the Government here and Governments abroad are still coming to terms with the ramifications of the Wikileaks saga, the US Secretary of State Hillary Clinton last night warned that the US is serious about tracking down those responsible for the leaks.

CLINTON: The United States strongly condemns the illegal disclosure of classified information. It puts people's lives in danger, threatens our national security, and undermines our efforts to work with other countries to solve shared problems.

GILLON: Craig Emerson, obviously we've heard a lot about national security implications, could there also be any negative impact on trade for Australia? Have any of these leaked cables for example offended any of our key trading partners?

EMERSON: Oh look I doubt that. I think that's probably a bridge too far but we join with the United States in condemning these leaks. They are done so with no good motive. They potentially put lives at risk. They put national security at risk. Our Department of Prime Minister and Cabinet is coordinating efforts at this stage. We're working with Washington, we're working with the Embassy here in Canberra. So it's a very serious leak and we've actually asked for advice on whether any Australian laws have been broken. So again we join with the United States in condemning it and we would take action if we were in a position to take action against anyone involved in these leaks.

GILLON: Kevin Andrews, has the Government here responded to these leaks appropriately do you think? And what do you make of the Australian connection here? Is Julian Assange a crusader for transparency or is he someone we should be embarrassed of do you think?

ANDREWS: Well there is a real concern there are security implications from any of these leaks. I mean we have Australians operating in various parts of the world. We have them in obvious places like Afghanistan, but there are obviously Australians elsewhere around the world involved in diplomatic and other activities. If any Australians who are going about their proper business on behalf of the people of this country are endangered because of these leaks then that's a very serious and worrying concern and you know, we would join with the Government in saying that this should be looked at carefully and indeed if there are any breaches of Australian laws well then we would support a prosecution.

GILLON: Just finally, one last issue Craig Emerson, a report in the Sydney Morning Herald today says that the Rudd Government went to last year's Copenhagen meeting ready to promise cuts between 10 and 15 per cent by the year 2020. We heard Julia Gillard talking up this issue yesterday saying she wanted a decision on a carbon price by next year. Is the Government planning to do deeper cuts to emissions, to commit to deeper cuts?

EMERSON: Our position remains a five per cent cut. That's an unconditional five per cent. If we did actually see an effective, binding global agreement, we've indicated that we might go further but we're not prepared to go further than five per cent as an unconditional cut because of the issue of carbon leakage. There's no point us doing all of the heavy lifting on our own only to see jobs and industries being exported to other countries that aren't part of a global effort to reduce carbon emissions. But I welcome Malcolm Turnbull's revival of his interest in an emissions trading scheme. He said that he will pursue that through the party room. That's a good thing, because I have to give credit where credit is due. At least Malcolm Turnbull believed in the formation of an emissions trading scheme here in Australia and it cost him the leadership of the Liberal Party because he was knifed by Tony Abbott.

GILLON: Well let's get Kevin Andrew's take on this. Kevin, this was of course a very tricky issue for the Liberal Party. Are you expecting that division to be reignited when this debate gets going again in earnest next year?

ANDREWS: Well what we're concerned about is the bottom line for Australians and what Julia Gillard is doing now is promising a great big new tax on Australians. This is the tax she ruled out before the election, the tax that she's now talking about implementing. We can't believe for one moment what Julia Gillard says because before an election she said 'A' and then after the election she said 'B'. Who knows what she's going to say in the future. That's the problem we've got.

EMERSON: We've always talked about putting a price on carbon. We've always talked about putting a price on carbon and you know that Kevin.

GILLON: Kevin Andrews, we'll let you wrap up.

ANDREWS: Julia Gillard said before the election there'd be no carbon tax, after which she said there would be a carbon tax. Quite clearly the Australian people were misled by Ms Gillard.

EMERSON: She has not said there will be a carbon tax. We've said that we would put a price on carbon. We said that before the election, during the campaign and after the election.

ANDREWS: You're playing with words now Craig and you know it.

GILLON: All right, I look forward to having this debate again next year…

EMERSON: They're your words Kevin. And I like playing with your words.

GILLON: …when we do see the pollies all back in Canberra when this issue is no doubt going to be a hot one for 2011. Craig Emerson, Kevin Andrews, thank you for your time this morning.

EMERSON: Thanks.

END

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