Ten Network Political Panel with Ron Wilson

Subjects: Victorian election, NBN.

Transcript, E&OE, proof only

26 November 2010

WILSON: Well, of course the Victorian State poll is the first test of voter sentiment since the Federal Election three months ago and, by any reckoning, it's been a long, very difficult year in federal politics. And joining us to debate the latest issues, including the NBN, Trade Minister Craig Emerson in Canberra and Shadow Immigration Minister Scott Morrison in Sydney. As always gentlemen thank you for joining our Friday morning debate. I appreciate it.

MORRISON: G'day Ron, G'day Craig.

EMERSON: With pleasure.

WILSON: Now, I've got a couple of other topics I just want comments on before we get into the heavy debate side of it. The Victorian election – opinion polls, Minister, seem to show that Labor has got a good chance of retaining power in Victoria. Given the difficulties State Labor is having in both New South Wales and Queensland, this must be quite a welcome change.

EMERSON: I think politicians always say about elections it's going to be a real tight go. And so I'm going to say it's going to be a real tight go. But that's the fact. If you look at published opinion polls, it's really on a knife edge. So, I'm sure both parties will be campaigning right up to the opening of the ballots on Saturday morning. But look John Brumby is leading a government that's done some really good things in Victoria, but importantly he's got a strong forward agenda, which includes very importantly the creation of a lot more jobs. We've seen through this country, including in Victoria, the creation of a lot of jobs, when 30 million jobs have been lost in Europe and North America. So I think that's really important, goes to the fundamentals of peoples' living standards, whether they've got work or enough work.

WILSON: Scott Morrison, Ted Baillieu has been under tremendous personal attack throughout this campaign. Can the party pull through that?

MORRISON: Well there's a sense of deja vu here going back to the New South Wales and the Queensland elections. If Victorian voters want any forecast of their future they only need to look north. You give Labor one last chance and it turns into an unmitigated mess, and that's what will happen if the Labor government is re-elected in Victoria. So I caution, I plead with the Victorians, just look north, look what's happened in Queensland, look what's happened in Victoria, in New South Wales, I should say. That's your future if you re-elect a Labor government in Victoria.

EMERSON: You see, Ron, this is so typical of Scott and the Liberals. They say elect us because we're not Labor. Here in the Federal Parliament, not one positive policy put forward by the Liberals. Not one by Tony Abbott.

MORRISON: Look Craig I'm just being fair, you just need to look at…

EMERSON: No you're not. You're absolutely being oppositionist for opposition's sake.

MORRISON: The last election, Craig, in New South Wales…

EMERSON: And what you've said in Victoria…

MORRISON: I'll let you finish, go on.

EMERSON: …is vote for Ted Baillieu and the Liberals, because they're not Labor. That is so lazy, but so typical of the Liberal party.

MORRISON: Craig…

WILSON: Gentlemen, I'm going to shoot the gun and let you go for it in just a moment. I need a comment just on this thing as well if you don't mind. We've got in the news today an Australian national businessman in China, Matthew Ng, who has been arrested over there on charges that quite frankly look a little bodgie on the outside. What can the government do to protect Australian businessmen doing business in China?

EMERSON: Well, I can't, and would never, pre-judge a case like this. My understanding is that charges have not been laid. But we are providing consular assistance. We do need to respect the legal systems in other countries. As I say, I can't pre-judge this but, you know, we can't have a situation where every time someone is charged, an Australian is charged overseas, there's an automatic question that these charges are trumped up. I don't know, but let's have the justice system proceed in China. But you can be assured, your viewers can be assured, that we're providing full consular assistance to this gentleman.

WILSON: Alright, now, here's the debate issue, and I know you guys are going to come all guns blazing on this here. This NBN, the claim is that the Opposition knows the outcome of this vote, which will split Telstra and allow the NBN to go ahead. Why has the Opposition literally dug its heels in and forced the extension of Parliament when they know what the outcome is going to be, Scott Morrison?

MORRISON: Well the issue here is ultimately about accountability and transparency, which this Government has refused to own up to. We had the same discussion last week, Ron, and we've got a Government that wouldn't put the cost-benefit analysis test to this project. We're going to spend $35.7 billion, we're going to spend another $9 billion on getting access to the shafts and to the cabling areas and so on. This is an enormous amount of money and this government won't provide the Parliament with the information it needs. It wants the Parliament to sign up blind, the Australian people to sign up blind. And given they ignored warnings on pink batts in roofs, on the bungles in the school halls program, on border protection and the warnings they got back as far as February 2008, and now they've spent more money putting beds in detention centres than beds in hospitals, why should this Australian people and the Coalition trust them with such an enormous sum of money? And that's the simple point we're making.

WILSON: Craig Emerson, we've got a topic here, and when I talk to people about it they glaze over when I talk about the NBN. The two things that they do spark up about though is the secrecy that's surrounded the whole business case for the 43, you know 43, pick a number, $40 billion proposition this year…

EMERSON: 35.7 (billion) …

WILSON: …and also the other thing is the complete secrecy and the cost, they just don't know what that's about.

EMERSON: Well, the Coalition has been saying release the business case. A summary of the business case has been released and it sets the cost at 35.7 billion, not 43. Of course, the Coalition is saying no, it's not 43, it's much more. When the business case is released and it says it's 35.7 watch the Coalition say no no, we wanted the summary of the business case out but that figure's wrong.

WILSON: Well the number does seem…

MORRISON:   Can I just pull Craig up for one thing here?

EMERSON: The Coalition will always oppose the National Broadband Network.

MORRISON: Craig.

EMERSON: It will always do so. The full business case will be out in December, but let's have a look at this test Ron.

MORRISON: But Craig, you know the cost.

EMERSON: And you really made this point, you really made this point. Just drop off for a second, would you please Scott? You really made this point.

MORRISON: Well Craig, I'll let you speak. You finish your point, we've only got so much time.

EMERSON: I'm going to finish my point if I can. The Independents and the Greens and Labor believe there's ample information in the business case and more generally upon which to make this decision. And that's why they are pledged to support the National Broadband Network. The Coalition will never believe there's enough information on which to make this decision because they are totally opposed to the National Broadband Network. And how weak, how pathetically weak, the Nationals are when they know their constituents desperately want high speed broadband and they are prepared to deny them that simply for some sort of political win – which they're not going to get.

MORRISON: Why can't you let the public in on the big secret then?

EMERSON: The documents out. You should have a look at it.

MORRISON: Well it's not out Craig, come on you've released 35 pages of a 400 page document, the figure you're talking about – no I let you finish Craig – 42 billion, 43 billion you said it was costing, that was the cost including the nominal cost, you know that the real cost in the original documents was around about 37, not 43, so you need to be upfront about that. You're not including the cost of getting access to all the shafts and all the channels that Telstra has. This is an enormous public expenditure, and the Government has released 35 pages out of a 400 page document. Now they've set up a committee of oversight. The Independents asked for a committee, a genuine oversight committee. They've given them the Labor caucus. And this is what this government calls transparency, accountability and oversight. And that's what this issue is about. Enormous expenditure of public money, which this government has been shown time and again to fail in the implementation, and the Coalition are simply just not going to roll over and let it happen when they release scant information to the public. And they have to be accountable for that.

EMERSON: The composition of this oversight committee reflects that of the Public Accounts Committee, so here's yet another furphy. But I'd put…

MORRISON: It's a caucus Craig.

WILSON: Gentlemen, gentlemen, the Parliament's holding over to Monday now. Will Monday do it or will there be more days ahead?

EMERSON: Well that's up to the Coalition. I think they'd like to be here for Christmas and New Year. That's fine if they want to do that.

WILSON: Canberra's lovely at Christmas.

MORRISON: The Parliament should do its job.

EMERSON: And all they're trying to demonstrate is what they oppose. And this is what we've learned from this year under Tony Abbott, he wants to be defined by what he opposes. And that is, he opposes everything that Labor does.

MORRISON: What he stands for Craig is accountability of public finances.

EMERSON: We've successfully got through more than 50 bills in this Parliament.

WILSON: Alright gentlemen, I'm sorry we're going to have to…

EMERSON: Successfully got through more than 50 bills in this Parliament over Tony Abbott.

MORRISON: And they all got the green tick I noticed Craig. The big green lean.

EMERSON: Yeah, and the Independents…

WILSON: Well I might just leave those two arguing and we'll just wrap up the debate. Thank you very much, Craig Emerson and Scott Morrison, for joining us for our Friday morning political debate. Thank you very much gentlemen. Merry Christmas and a happy New Year.

END

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