Interview - 3AW Mornings with Nick McCallum
Subjects: Attack on an Indian man in Melbourne, Australia-India relations
Transcript - Trade Minister and Acting Foreign Affairs Minister
5 January 2010
NICK MCCALLUM: But in the studio at the moment is Acting Foreign Affairs Minister, Simon Crean. He's also, obviously, the Minister for Trade as well. Good morning to you, and Happy New Year.
SIMON CREAN: Yeah, you too Nick. It's good to be with you so early in the year.
NICK MCCALLUM: It is, although a very unhappy topic. The ramifications, and there are many of them in a broad sense, to the tragic stabbing murder of the Indian graduate Nitin Garg in Footscray over the weekend. First of all, the Indians are talking about issuing a travel warning against Australia, Melbourne in specific. What sort of impact would that have?
SIMON CREAN: Well, it clearly has already had impact, Nick. I mean, tourism numbers are down and student numbers are down from India because of the difficulties we ran into last year and that's what we're trying to address. This current circumstance is tragic and my deepest sympathies go out to the family concerned. Police are investigating it. Their initial response is they don't think it was racially motivated, but we do have to deal with this problem, and we've been working very closely with the Victorian Government and the Victorian authorities, not only to try and bring the perpetrators to justice who caused this fatal attack, but also to try and address much better, this problem that seems to be the perception that there is - this attack's motivated against Indian students, per se. Now, we don't think that is the case, but we need to deal with it.
NICK MCCALLUM: But there's - you're right. The word is perception.
SIMON CREAN: Perception.
NICK MCCALLUM: And certainly, the Indian media and the Indian Government, rightly or wrongly, is creating that perception so there will be repercussions.
SIMON CREAN: Well, there may be repercussions. I hope that wiser heads prevail and in all of our discussions with the Indian authorities and the government, I think they do understand that (a) these are not racially motivated and (b) we are trying our very best to ensure that we're addressing the perception problem.
NICK MCCALLUM: But…
SIMON CREAN: But instances like this simply refuel the argument over there. You know, crime happens in any city, Nick. It happens in Mumbai. It happens in Delhi. It's not just that stabbings and deaths occur in Melbourne. We have one of the lowest fatalities in the world, but we still have to deal with the perception issue and we have to, I must say, continue to really try and deal with the grief, the tragic grief that the parents are going through.
NICK MCCALLUM: I'll get onto that in second, but the Exterior Affairs Minister of India, Mr Krishna, I mean, he has been more than happy at a press conference a couple of days ago to certainly give the impression that it was all racial, and to give the impression that the Australian Government is at fault, and to give the impression that they want to take hard action against the Australian Government. So, surely, that doesn't help the Australian Government, or the Victorian Government, does it?
SIMON CREAN: Well, I think what helps is to try and get the facts on the table, to bring justice to bear and to reinforce with the Indian authorities and the government that we are doing all that we can to deal with these issues.
NICK MCCALLUM: Well, is he specifically, and the Indian Government, the other members of the Indian Government, are they being responsible saying this sort of stuff?
SIMON CREAN: Well, people say all sorts of things in front of the media, and especially when the media at home is fuelling the issue, and I can understand why the Indian Minister has said what he has said. But I believe in the end wiser heads will prevail. This is not something that can be fixed by blaming a government in circumstances in which it is part of a spate of crimes that have been happening. We have strengthened the hand of the law enforcement authorities. Already, as part of the attacks on Indian students previously, we've identified hotspot areas, including that Footscray area, and the police have got additional powers in terms of investigation. So, I think that we're trying to do all we can in the circumstances, but this is a tragic circumstance as our condolences, deepest sympathies, go to the family.
NICK MCCALLUM: On the family, they have been reported in the Indian media as saying they're very concerned about being able to afford getting Nitin Garg's body back to India, and they want more help from the Australian Federal Government in that respect.
SIMON CREAN: We are working with the family, we are working with the Indian authorities, we're working with the High Commission and the Consul-General here in Melbourne to return the body as soon as is possible.
NICK MCCALLUM: And will the Australia Government foot the bill for that?
SIMON CREAN: Well, I'm not aware of the cost issue, but look, this is a time for condolences and grief and trying to ease that pain so we will do whatever we can to address the return of the body as quickly as possible.
NICK MCCALLUM: The - as I understand it, today the Indian High Commissioner is meeting with DFAT officials from your department and the Foreign Affairs Department. What is that meeting all about? What will be discussed there?
SIMON CREAN: Well, we're in regular discussion. As I say, I checked this morning, and such a request had not been formally made to us. I've seen reports in the paper that such a meeting is being sought. There's no problem with having the meeting, I mean, clearly, we need to get on top of this issue. We need to address the concerns. We need to get the body back home to the parents and we need to try and reassure the Indian authorities here that what we've already taken them through, and the reason for the visits that we've made to India from the Prime Minister down, a number of us as Ministers have been there. We deal with this question all of the time. It has been an issue running over the course of the last 12 months. It is important for us to guarantee safety as best we can when parents send their children here to study. It's also terribly important that we reinforce this image - the true image of Australia which is that we are a safe environment. What happens when these instances occur, of course, is that it tarnishes that in a pretty significant way.
NICK MCCALLUM: When - as Trade Minister, when you saw on TV last night the Indian news reports on this and the way that they have blatantly accused it of being racial, whether that's correct or not you must be shaking your head saying oh no, this is the last thing we need, given the importance of foreign student income to Australia?
SIMON CREAN: Well it's not the income so much Nick. I mean, I think that the reason we draw a lot of students, not just from India, but from China, from Africa, from the Middle East is because we offer a quality product. One of the great exports of Australia is its education services. So it's in our interest to reinforce the quality product. These issues go to, on the one hand, safety, and they also highlight the circumstances where a number of people have been coming here for courses that themselves are not up to scratch. Whether they're being offered by the wrong people or people unscrupulously at the other end, or whether we're not regulating sufficiently, these are all issues which we have inherited, we've been addressing over the course of the last 12 months, and I believe we have been working very closely with the Indian Government and the Indian High Commission in Australia to try and reinforce the need to guarantee the quality, but also to try and address this safety issue. It's a two-pronged exercise. What we're dealing with here is a student who's completed his course, decided he's going to stay here, he's taken a part-time job, go into work and he's knifed to death. I mean this is just an outrageous offence to have happened, but is it racially motivated? Look at what the police say. No evidence that it is racially motivated. And also look at the report of one of the victims' very close friends who also says he doesn't believe it was racially motivated because he has also witnessed other stabbings in the area that wasn't of an Indian national.
NICK MCCALLUM: Okay, but then also listen to other elements of his friends who also say they feel unsafe and they in fact - and they're emotional…
SIMON CREAN: Okay.
NICK MCCALLUM: …and we forgive this, but they likened Australia to the dangers of Afghanistan.
SIMON CREAN: Yeah but that's the point isn't it? Everyone gets emotional in these circumstances. There's a lot of grief, an outpouring of grief, and there's a lot of how did this happen? What could we have done to stop it? People will say all sorts of things in those circumstances. In the end we have to rely on the facts. Whilst there's an investigation being undertaken I think it would be wrong to speculate, but it is interesting that the police, the law enforcement authority, said on the day it happened, that there was no evidence that this was racially motivated. Now let’s wait and see what the investigation unfolds, but at the moment we have to deal with the perception issue, but I'd prefer to always deal with the perception based on facts. Let’s get the facts, but at the moment we are doing all we can to address the issue.
NICK MCCALLUM: But the problem is that the other side, as in the Indian Government and the Indian media, are not waiting for the facts and so you have to counter that. Getting back to the original question, if the Indian Government does go ahead with its threat and puts a travel warning against Australia, what impact would that have having it actually on a computer screen?
SIMON CREAN: Well I don't think that the travel warning on the screen will have anymore impact than blanket news coverage which is going on day in day out…
NICK MCCALLUM: But it's very symbolic though isn't it? It's very symbolic?
SIMON CREAN: No, it's more than symbolic. It's us trying to get the message through as a counter to what is being portrayed over there that we are doing everything possible, that Australia is not a racist country. No-one who knows this country believes we're a racist country. No-one believes that we would have people that would set about racially targeting one group. Do we have crime in Australia? Yes. But there is crime all around the world. There are murders, there are stabbings that happen in every city, in every country of the world every day. Australia's not unique in that sense, but Australia has one of the lowest crimes, one of the lowest death mortality from stabbings, these sorts of murders, anywhere in the world. To blame the Government for that is a nonsense in my view. But it is the responsibility of the law enforcement authorities to reinforce the strength of our position. We are a safe community in the main. We have to continue to put in place those measures necessary to ensure that safety.
NICK MCCALLUM: Is there a legitimate argument to say the Federal Government and the State Government should send officials to India, police officials, or whatever to India and to lecture prospective students coming to Australia to explain there are problems, basic facts like don't leave train stations at night make sure you don't have mobile phones and iPods easily seen when you're travelling around late at night?
SIMON CREAN: We're already doing that, both over there and here when they arrive. This has been a consequence of the taskforce we put together last year when this incident, this series of incidents, the bashings etcetera first occurred, to identify the importance of taking basic care of yourself, understanding the environment that you come into, that there can be unsafe places, to take care. We're already doing that. If we can reinforce it we will. These issues always highlight the importance of getting that message through, but we're doing everything we can to address this problem.
NICK MCCALLUM: And briefly on another topic. Now, as Acting Foreign Affairs Minister, this involves you. I know it's also a transport issue. But the Americans have just announced, amongst all the other increased security at airports that they are going to target and double check luggage and do body checks of people coming from and holding passports of so-called terrorism sponsoring countries such as Sudan and Iran and terrorist countries, well where terrorists act occurs and terrorist training occurs like Yemen and Afghanistan, 14 countries in all. Is Australia looking at adopting a similar mode?
SIMON CREAN: No it's not, but I'm not the person to really address that question to at this point. I heard that report today. I want to get on top of it, but Australia isn't in the position of simply responding to what other countries do. We make our own assessment based on the security threat. Based on the risk assessment, we have undertaken very stringent search requirements for overseas visitors and we'll continue to monitor that and take appropriate action as we see it.
NICK MCCALLUM: Is that a version of racial profiling and is racial profiling something the Government would consider?
SIMON CREAN: I heard that connotation put to what the Americans have announced, but until I see the full details of what the Americans were doing I'd prefer not to comment at this stage.
NICK MCCALLUM: Simon Crean, Acting Foreign Affairs Minister and Trade Minister, we really appreciate your time on this Tuesday.
SIMON CREAN: Thank you very much Nick.
Media inquiries
- Mr Crean’s Office: (02) 6277 7420
- Departmental Media Liason: (02) 6261 1555