Transcript
20 November, 2009
Interview - Sky News AM Agenda with Kieran Gilbert
KIERAN GILBERT: Joining me to discuss this and the other matters of the day the Trade Minister Simon Crean. Mr Crean good morning.
SIMON CREAN: Good morning Kieran.
KIERAN GILBERT: Before we get onto matters of your responsibility I want to ask you about the other issues around, firstly the asylum seeker matter. The Prime Minister told the Parliament that women and children would be offered a house near the Tanjung Pinang detention centre, they're now behind bars. How does that work?
SIMON CREAN: Well as I understand it he said they would be offered separate accommodation away from the detention centre. They have. It turns out it's a kitchen with accommodation above it. It has got bars; that's unfortunate because our policy is that the women and children (a) should be separated; they are. They shouldn't be behind razor wire and bars, they're behind bars. But these are Indonesian facilities and bear in mind, why are they in Indonesia? Because they were found in Indonesian waters. The Indonesian authorities asked Australia for assistance to bring them to Indonesia.
What we've said is we're prepared to have them processed in accordance with United Nations High Commission for Refugee (UNHCR) standards. A number of them onboard have already been determined as refugees. Therefore we've been able to expedite, say that we will expedite the processing which is also our policy.
Now this has been a long drawn out saga, longer than we would have liked, but we've shown patience as the Foreign Minister and the Prime Minister have consistently said. We've got the patience to see this through. That it's been…
KIERAN GILBERT: But the Prime Minister said…
SIMON CREAN: It's been done in accordance with an international framework that we want to strengthen. We want to work through the UNHCR. We want to get consistency. We want to urge expedition in processing and we want to urge countries to take their fair share of refugees, which we are prepared to do.
KIERAN GILBERT: But Mr Crean, the Prime Minister has said repeatedly the Government would be tough but humane.
SIMON CREAN: Yes.
KIERAN GILBERT: How is it humane to have, you know, 18 months old kids behind bars which is what we're seeing?
SIMON CREAN: Well it's unfortunate they're behind bars. I don't think anyone quibbles with that. But they - but we have…
KIERAN GILBERT: But he's offloaded the situation…
SIMON CREAN: No no. No no.
KIERAN GILBERT: …he could have brought the people to Christmas Island.
SIMON CREAN: No, no. They were in Indonesian waters.
KIERAN GILBERT: They were in international waters.
SIMON CREAN: No they were in the Indonesian search and rescue area and Indonesia, because they couldn't deal with them with their own facilities, asked for our assistance and then…
KIERAN GILBERT: But it's hardly humane is it?
SIMON CREAN: No, but this is not the question you asked me. I'm saying to you let's analytically look at how these circumstances arose. Let's not ignore the facts. Once they're taken back to Indonesia and they're landed they go into Indonesian facilities.
Now we will continue to urge that those facilities as we have (a) should be separated; they shouldn't have the bars, they shouldn't have the razor wire. They are separated. They haven't got the razor wire, they have got the bars, unfortunate, yes. But it is a fact of life. What we've got to try and do is to continue to urge in terms of their facilities going forward, try and get them to accept our policy position which is separate housing if you like for women and kids. No place for women and kids - women with kids in detention centres.
KIERAN GILBERT: The Prime Minister has struggled to match his rhetoric with the reality this week given that first of all he said that they'd be in a house and they're not, there's bars and secondly he says that there's not a special deal. How can the Government continue to dance around the fact that you know, you say it's a unique circumstance but they're being processed within 12 weeks. The average in Indonesia for processing is 52 weeks…How is that not a special deal?
SIMON CREAN: Because we've consistently argued, our policy, what we went to the election with, was that the processing should be expedited. So we can't say it and then not enforce it and what we've said is that it should be sped up in relation to these people who we assisted in terms of the Indonesian request.
KIERAN GILBERT: But the Prime Minister says he likes to be fair dinkum with the Australian people, he likes to be fair dinkum, why not be fair dinkum and say well yes this is our goal but it is a special deal in the context of what the other people are getting there?
SIMON CREAN: It's not a special deal. It's trying to apply the circumstances we would prefer in the context of these circumstances that we find ourselves in. Now as I said before, a number of the people who are on the boat have already been determined to have refugee status.
Why do they need further processing; we've got to check them for health, we've got to check them for security, we've got to do those sorts of additional checks. That's why some will be processed sooner than others. But what's wrong with that? That's the objective.
KIERAN GILBERT: There's nothing wrong with it but wouldn't you advise the Prime Minister and others to say let's use some plainer language here and admit what is plain to most people that these people are getting a special deal compared to other asylum seekers in a similar circumstance?
SIMON CREAN: We're trying.
KIERAN GILBERT: It just seems you're denying the reality of the situation.
SIMON CREAN: I don't see it as a special deal Kieran. To tell you the truth I don't. What I do see, is us trying to influence other people, other countries, internationals, in terms of what we believe is not just the objective we've set for ourselves that should be part of an international framework. What we have to do is to get international acceptance of the fact that because of all the trouble spots around the world there are continuing flows of refugees.
We have an international obligation to look after them. It has to be consistent. Processing has to be consistent. Determination of who are political refugees as distinct from economic refugees. That has to be consistent. We are doing this in accordance with that process. What we're trying to do is to argue there should be expedition in the assessment process and there should be sharing in terms of where the refugees who were ultimately determined are housed, are taken - where they're settled.
Australia has always been prepared to play its fair share in this and this government is committed to those processes.
KIERAN GILBERT: On another issue that's dominated the headlines this week, that of course is the Emissions Trading Scheme. There are some within the coalition who don't think the Government will call a double dissolution election and they say we need to vote against this, block it, they don't think you're going - that you'd do it. Should they be so confident?
SIMON CREAN: We are deadly serious in getting this legislation through. Someone has to show the lead not the deferral in this exercise. Climate change is a problem, a global problem that we have to face up to in global terms. We are already getting acceptance of important principles as to how to tackle it; a market-based mechanism, a cap and trade system, the recognition of common but differentiated. The discussions between the US and China are indicating that China is prepared to take certain measures.
We've got to bring this into a framework but we also have to demonstrate that parliaments around the country - around the world, can actually make the decisions and legislate, not obfuscate; not defer. What's the point of deferring til something else happens if there is actually agreement around the principles?
Now what we're trying to do, we've said in good faith we'll go into negotiations; we will work with the Opposition to try and accommodate their interest. We've already made one important concession in relation to agriculture. We've demonstrated our bona fides. What we want is the Opposition to demonstrate theirs. They can't go into negotiations and then have the luxury of saying forget all of that, we're going to vote against you anyway.
KIERAN GILBERT: And should they be not so confident, some of them, that you wouldn't go to an early election based on that, given how strongly you believe in it?
SIMON CREAN: Absolutely. We keep all options open in this. This has been rejected once. We want it passed the second time and that's why we want this to go to a vote next week. The real challenge for the Opposition and for Malcolm Turnbull and his leadership is to bite the bullet, take a recommendation and actually lead, not allow the rabble that we're seeing now within Coalition ranks.
And the challenge for Mr Minchin and for Tony Abbott is not that they'll just accept the decision of their party room but they will also accept the decision of the Shadow Cabinet. That's called Cabinet solidarity. That's what Malcolm Turnbull has to insist on and if Minchin and Abbott can't accept that they should resign from the Shadow Cabinet.
KIERAN GILBERT: Do you feel for Malcolm Turnbull? You led an Opposition that was divided. It was a tough time. Do you feel for him as he leads this divided party?
SIMON CREAN: Well I do feel for him but that's hardly the point. I'm trying to give him some friendly advice because as difficult as these things are you've got to show leadership. Whatever the difficulties I had I showed leadership. I was prepared to go out there and fight the fight and win.
Now in the end different circumstances prevailed but on all these key issues whether it was the war in Iraq, whether it was the anti-terrorism laws, whether it was issue of reform within the Labor Party, the whole range of things, the challenging of the Government to do something better on water, challenges on superannuation, our position in terms of the GST; I was prepared to lead. All I say to Malcolm Turnbull, I'm not giving him sympathy I'm just giving him advice and he should take it. Not just in his interests but in the interests of the nation.
KIERAN GILBERT: Okay, another, onto your area - specific area of responsibility, another glowing report from the OECD on the economy. You'd know better than anyone as Trade Minister that the resilience of China has played an enormous part in our economy's better-than-expected performance.
SIMON CREAN: Yes, China has been terribly important Kieran and that's why it's very pleasing that we've had the breakthrough this week in terms of moving to another round of negotiations on the Free Trade Agreement (FTA). They've been stalled now for over 12 months. That's been broken. The Prime Minister's involvement with his counterparts, the visit here by the Vice Premier a couple of weeks ago, my meeting in Singapore last week.
This is an important breakthrough. Now we're not there yet, but I think it is terribly instructive that the Chinese do see the importance of strengthened economic relationship. But it's not just China that's of benefit to Australia. The whole of the Asian region is of benefit to Australia's growth at the moment Kieran. They're all investing in infrastructure, that's demand for resources and that's why the fact that we've concluded a free trade agreement with all of the ASEAN countries, the whole 10 of them is significantly important for our prospects going forward.
KIERAN GILBERT: The China talks have been going for four years or so.
SIMON CREAN: No they've been going for much longer than that but they were frozen because the previous government conceded something without getting enough in return.
KIERAN GILBERT: So when do you expect a final resolution? Can you give us a tip at all when you might expect it?
SIMON CREAN: We've got the next meeting here in Canberra in February. The next round. And there's been a frank discussion at the political level that we need to progress this in a way that brings it to a conclusion.
KIERAN GILBERT: Within six months or so?
SIMON CREAN: No I don't want to put a time on it because you become captive to the time agenda. Again I'm patient; we're a patient government but we're a persistent government, we're a determined government and I'll show that determination and we will continue to push this to try and bring it to a conclusion as soon as possible.
KIERAN GILBERT: Mr Crean as always, appreciate your time, thank you.
SIMON CREAN: My pleasure.
ENDS
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