Transcript
30 July 2009
ABC2 News Breakfast program with Virginia Trioli and Joe O'Brien
Subject: ALP National Conference
JOE O'BRIEN: The ALP conference gets underway in Sydney today, and jobs and the economy will be at the top of the agenda. Federal, state and territory leaders will join 400 delegates from around the nation for the three-day event.
VIRGINIA TRIOLI: The Rudd Government says it will oppose a push by the unions for green trade barriers. The unions say Australian jobs will be threatened by countries that don't sign on to emissions targets.
JOE O'BRIEN: For more, the Trade Minister Simon Crean joins us now from outside the conference in Sydney. Mr Crean, good morning.
MR CREAN: Good morning Joe.
JOE O'BRIEN: Now, when an Australia, when Australia has an ETS and China and India don't, their production costs will be cheaper and they'll have an unfair advantage. Do you concede that?
MR CREAN: If that's the case, and without additional measures under our scheme, that could be the case. But, let's...
JOE O'BRIEN: So what's the problem with making it a level playing ground with green trade barriers?
MR CREAN: It doesn't make it a level playing ground if you introduce the trade barriers, because the trade barriers become a new form of protectionism. We've fought too long to get trade barriers down. Why would we move in the direction of re-erecting some new ones? Now, we understand this argument of carbon leakage Joe. The whole purpose of us devising our scheme and the issuance of free permits is in part our approach in addressing that, as are our measures to encourage alternate energy sources and to develop and diffuse - in other words to transfer to other countries - the technologies that enable them to reduce. What we've got to do is to get a scheme in place that rewards comparative advantage. Australia's comparative advantage is not just its resources but the efficiency with which it can extract them and the fact that… that its resource and its development of its resource is far cleaner than the rest of the world. We need to get recognition of that in the scheme.
JOE O'BRIEN: But, to what extent...
MR CREAN: And that's exact... that's exactly what Labor's doing. What we don't want is a reversion to something that can become another trade barrier.
JOE O'BRIEN: But to what extent will those measures compensate for the imbalance? Will they compensate 100 per cent for that imbalance?
MR CREAN: No. They compensate depending on the level of emission up to 90 per cent Joe. That's what's in the scheme. But, of course, this is part of what we're using to drive the debate internationally. We have to get a system that is internationally accepted. But that international acceptance also has to recognise this principle of common but differentiated - in other words, countries at different stages of development may get more time to adjust. That's why we've introduced these measures, such as the permit, the issue of the free permits, to help our businesses get through that transition time. But all of this depends on what the final outcome is. I mean, my point is, apart from the administrative difficulty of the border tax arrangements, it invites retaliatory measures, it becomes a new form of trade barrier. But the worst aspect is its conceding defeat before we even start. Now I think it's far better for Labour to go forward with a scheme that all of our parties supports, and the broad community in the main supports - it's only the Opposition that are stalling on this - to go forward with that in a progressive way to try and get the maximum outcome from the Copenhagen agreement and not begin watering it down.
JOE O'BRIEN: So you're going to stare the unions down on this at the conference?
MR CREAN: Well, we're not going to support measures that run the risk of becoming a new form of protectionism. And that's what border taxes can become, quite apart from their administrative complexity. I mean, people who advocate this, I don't think have thought the consequences through. And let's have a debate about it, but we will not support it.
JOE O'BRIEN: Is there any chance that compensation to the coal industry for an ETS will be doubled to one and a half billion?
MR CREAN: No. We've put our proposals out in terms of the coal industry. We've put the white paper out; we've invited comment about that; and we've introduced legislation based on that comment. It's passed the House of Representatives. All we're waiting for is the Liberal Party to get its act together. At least Malcolm Turnbull is showing a preparedness to move in that direction.
JOE O'BRIEN: Well can, can you guarantee...
MR CREAN: But we hope he moves...
JOE O'BRIEN: can you guarantee there will be no job losses...
MR CREAN: we hope he moves the full way.
JOE O'BRIEN: ...can you guarantee there will be no job losses in the coal industry because of an ETS?
MR CREAN: What we are saying is, let's not just look at this argument from the perspective of where the threats are. There are huge opportunities for Australia and job opportunities in green jobs. We are the most efficient effective producer of resources in the world. We've got to get comparative advantage for it. But, we're also going to be introducing - again, if the Senate passes - a mandated renewable energy target that will lift the capacity to develop renewable energy. We can export that to the world. I believe that there are job opportunities out of embracing climate change sensibly; understanding what the real challenge is, and understanding most of all what the comparative advantage of this country is. There can be green jobs...
JOE O'BRIEN: But you can't give that...
MR CREAN: ...in this...
JOE O'BRIEN: ...you can't give that guarantee in relation to coal. But one of the other issues up for discussion at the conference is the importation of cheap copies of Australian books. The left wants that rejected. Author, the Australian author Nick Earls says, allowing parallel importation will cost jobs in publishing and printing, reduce the number of current writers able to write full-time, reduce the number of new Australian writers and the number of Australian stories being told. Are you prepared to live with that legacy?
MR CREAN: Well, no, hang on. This is a very complex issue. We have a report from the Productivity Commission. We will consider that report and make our judgement based on all of the representations made around it.
JOE O'BRIEN: So you're leaving your options open in relation to that at this stage? MR CREAN: Of course we are. We're not going to be rushed into this. We're going to consider the report. Clearly people have strong views on it. That will be taken into account, and the government will determine its position accordingly. That's how good governments should operate.
JOE O'BRIEN: We look forward to some feisty exchanges on the floor of the national conference. Simon Crean, thanks very much for talking to us this morning.
MR CREAN: Thanks Joe.
[ENDS]
Media Inquiries: Departmental Media Liaison 02 6261 1555